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Thread: New to using a 'F-CLASS BR' at 50 yards...

  1. #161
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Taz,

    I am more along the lines of what Charlie was trying to accomplish in his original thread. An accurate platform that is fun to shoot and I can use to do some critter control. I am not constraining myself to iron sights. There are no aspirations to shoot PCP’s competitively. My investment is less than $2000 for the rifle, sights and tank.

    I fired my first four shots this afternoon to see how loud it is. It sure is pleasant not to need hearing protection or pick up spent cases. If the weather holds up, I will sight it in and start the journey.
    Don Verna


  2. #162
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    dverna---- Good luck with your journey. If you are going to post a thread about it, post a link so I can follow it.
    Thanks.

  3. #163
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    I saw a guy at the bench rest range a few months ago on a nice day with a top end PCP air rifle doing bench rest at 50 yards. The rest he was using was more elaborate than the one OS has.
    I don't remember the name of the rifle or scope he was using now. I do remember looking up the value just out of curiosity. It was around $2500. His scope was also expensive by my standards.
    The guy was good. He was shooting a large target with lots of individual rings with tiny dots for an aiming point in the center and he rarely missed it.
    Of course he has his own compressor for his air cylinders. No idea what that costs.
    He was using Eley Tenex match pellets.

    Bench rest air rifle can be just as expensive as rimfire match if you let it.
    tazman . . . I am shocked, there's no brass or priming compound or powder ... none, this is ridiculous!

    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  4. #164
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Check the pellet counts in each box. 450pcs if I remember correctly. Not as expensive per pellet as you might think, just looking at the boxes.

  5. #165
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    Tasman I don’t know how many boxes in a pallet but one bloke will happily lay down $5-6k on a particular lot/machine date probably twice as much

    I don’t shoot comps but did score for a few ibr state shoots.

    It seems a very stressful pursuit.
    I wouldn’t call it a sport and there don’t seem to be as much sportsmanship in it.

    I think I’ll stick to shooting for "stihs and giggles" as Americans say.

  6. #166
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    I won't be doing the high end bench rest shooting either. I couldn't afford it anyway.
    The ARA ( American Rimfire Association) has what they call a "factory class". It actually restricts what can be done with a rifle and how much that rifle can cost.
    As I currently read the rules, the rifle must retail for less than $1000. Any scope you want to use.
    No modifications of any kind to the rifle other than trigger. No bedding changes. No tuners allowed.
    Any ammunition you want to use as long as it is 22lr.

    This makes things affordable(barely) and competitive for people who can't afford the high dollar guns.

    They have an unlimited class as well where anything goes, so they have competitions for both types.

  7. #167
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    dverna . . . I can't wait to see you get started with that air rifle. But...at the price of those pellets I think I'd be looking up a good mould and casting my own, perfecting that skill also and making it part of the quest for excellence.

    303guy . . . I get it about being lazy from time to time but you have been threatening to do that build long enough now, get on board with dverna and get'er started!

    taz . . . As usual, I didn't read the fine print ... I was assuming again, we know what that does.

    OK for today, I decided I'd use the last of my ammo shooting 'Bare Barrel'...I kinda like the looks of her without that big blob of metal on the muzzle anyway. I figure I'll learn something more doing this and today I had me an idea about lubes, this 'Match' paraffin wax & 'tenex' beeswax tallow...maybe they don't get along following each other in the barrel?

    I did a 'hi-tech' mod to the bench today...I stiffened her up a bit more against my leaning sideways against it. It worked...



    Here's today's work...clean chamber and dirty barrel...I was plesantly surprised with the 'Match' Eley and totally blown over by the 'tenex'..what the hey?
    It wasn't my sending them or the wind getting gusty, I shot when the wind was dropping back to the 4+mph level...



    If you notice the the targets below, I think I see something happening that can't be blamed on me or rifle or ammo...



    Tuesday the barrel got wet swabbed and I ran the 'Match' in it, the following day I ran the 'tenex' folowed by 'Match' & nothing looked any good.
    Now today I run the 'match' again and the groups are much better. When I went with the 'tenex' at the end of the session everything went to Hades in a hand-basket quick!
    I think I'm having a problem mixing the two lubes without a wet swabbing and the barrel seasoning itself with the ammo I use afterwards. There's no other explanation I can think of for this sequence of several days and the changing of the groups so drastically with this ammo.

    I don't know, just have my theory going on this...I'll have to listen to you guys that have 'Been there & Done that' before I can determine, I'm not sure I have all the facts about switching lubes.

    I finally got a picture through the scope showing how the cross-hairs meld with the pencil marks when they're aligned. See how the horizontal is almost missing and see the vertical, almost thinner than the pencil lines...

    Last edited by OS OK; 04-02-2021 at 08:39 PM.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  8. #168
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Charlie,

    I approach my quest with a few trepidations. Even with .22 pellets, I am using a very light projectile that will be very susceptible to wind....and I am lousy shooting in the wind. The best match pellets are in .177. When you posted those pictures of Eley pellets, I was excited....but they are not offered in .22 cal.

    The pluses working for me are first. Match grade pellets can be had. For $20/500....10 times the number of shots of a box of .22 match. Second, Pellets are still obtainable so less of a supply issue.

    As to your situation, one wild idea to consider. Would using BLL applied over the factory lube be worth playing with. I am considering experimenting with that concept with pellets. It is my understanding that in air rifles a difference as little as .0005” will affect accuracy.
    Don Verna


  9. #169
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    dverna----- Your suggestion about adding a lube coating to some ammunition is interesting.
    I have heard reports from handgunners that for target shooting with 38 special, having less lube was more accurate. I have also heard that insufficient lube causes no end of problems. I have never heard reports that "too much boolit lube" has been a serious problem as far as accuracy is concerned.
    Your idea will need to be tested to find out how that works out.
    I have some ammo, made by RWS, that has an oily lube on it. So much so that after handling it, my fingers are very slick with it.
    Might be interesting to dip the boolit in a cup of BLL or transmission fluid before the shot and see if it made a difference.

    Never having made any BLL, I have a question. Does BLL dry on the surface after application and sitting for a while?

    I once asked a competitive air rifle shooter how often he cleaned his barrel. His response was he only ran a dry patch down the barrel occasionally and never oiled it or lubed it in any way. He claimed that oiling the barrel of an air rifle would destroy the accuracy of the rifle until the barrel was completely dried out, possibly taking many, many shots to do even after dry patching.
    This conversation took place 30 years ago so things have probably changed since then. I haven't shot competitive air rifle ever so cannot say if he was right or wrong. Just relating a conversation I once had.

  10. #170
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    March of last year I tried the Imperial Sizing Wax on the noses of some Federal Gold Match (miserable ammo!) and it didn't seem to help...but I don't recall doing any chrony work to see what it might show.



    It didn't help the problem I had...'old eyes & iron sights' @ 50 yds. don't dance well together.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

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  11. #171
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OS OK View Post

    It didn't help the problem I had...'old eyes & iron sights' @ 50 yds. don't dance well together.
    Sounds familiar.

    I got myself a reflex sight which I finally fitted to the 510 (I fitted a scope rail and tried the relfex) and what I found was a bit disappointing. I'm getting a double image just like with a scope. Anyway, I took that off and fitted the scope. The cross hair seems to have a step at the cross. Need to go see the eye specialist!
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  12. #172
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    I am also optically challenged. I turn 70 in a few months and the eyes just don't work like they used to.
    As few as 5 years ago, I could use a reflex sight with no issues. Not so now.
    I also have to adjust my scopes quite a bit to get clear focus on the crosshairs and target both.
    Iron sights are difficult at best. I can see the sights without my glasses but not the target. With my glasses, I can see the target but not the sights.
    For handguns, I can still see the target well enough without my glasses ti hit reasonably well. With a rifle, the target it too far away for that to work.

    I am due for a new set of glasses. I am going to discuss the issue with her and see what solutions she can provide.

  13. #173
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    My right eye got damaged when I was a kid, sword-fighting the neighbor. So it's always been on the left eye to get me by.
    Prolly 3 years ago now, the wife & I both looked into the cataract surgery and got that done...what a world of difference.
    It's truly a Blessing from God above to experience mediocre eyes all your life and suddenly he gives you good vision! What an experience.

    I got a lens installed that I could focus both far and near and it worked out...by golly, I now can read the print on a vitamin bottle and see really well at distance with the help of the lowest power lens, they make the image very sharp...didn't know what I've been missing all my life.

    If you guys can get help with your vision then get on it!
    I can't imagine life today without being able to shoot, make boolits and stuff'em in the brass!
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  14. #174
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    I got an answer about the 'incompatible lubes suspicion' I posted in #167 above.
    It came from another forum and close friend, Eli said...


    mr.revolverguy
    Reply to CharlieBrassStuffer

    Charlie now that is good data and to me proves what I have said all along. You can’t mix lube which is why I shoot at least 20 rounds to recoat the barrel.
    If you remember almost a year ago I was running a wet patch and two dry patches between switching ammo and MAN they came out of the wood works even had a professional shooter contact me who I will not name said... "dude just fire spotters until the group tightens up, this way you do not run the risk of damaging the barrel". He said... "no professionals he knows does that routine"... he was very nice and was trying to help. He is a BIG NAME in the small bore game.
    Having said that he and I both agreed that the 'mixing of lube' in the barrel does not materially hurt anything but it absolutely impacts group size on target and attributed to many flyers.
    He went on to say... ''the reason for not cleaning was it would take more rounds to season a clean barrel than if you were to fire the new rounds on top until your groups started to tighten back up''.
    He said I have minimized my risk with using a pull thru system but anytime you clean a barrel there is risk involved.

    Thank you Eli for your quick response to this question.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  15. #175
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Tazman,
    BLL dries and is not sticky or gooey. If I were to try it, I would do 100 pellets and let them dry at least 24 hrs. I have never hear of lube on air gun pellets and for sure if cannot be like our traditional lubes....they would make a mess. Something like BLL or Hi-Tek might be interesting.

    The only reason I mentioned BLL to Charlie is that it will apply over whatever in on the bullets now and dry.

    I intend to clean my air gun barrel with cleaning pellets that are shot out of the barrel. These things:

    https://www.airgundepot.com/rws-22cleaningpellets.html

    Unlike other barrels, pellet barrels are made of soft steel and easily damaged. But this is way off topic....so back to regularly scheduled programing...
    Don Verna


  16. #176
    Boolit Grand Master
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    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...51#post5159751

    Charlie/Taz

    Above is the link you requested to the thread I started on my PCP rifle journey. Now I can stop throwing this thread off kilter...LOL But will keep checking in to see you are doing. Good luck!!
    Don Verna


  17. #177
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...51#post5159751

    Charlie/Taz

    Above is the link you requested to the thread I started on my PCP rifle journey. Now I can stop throwing this thread off kilter...LOL But will keep checking in to see you are doing. Good luck!!
    Thanks Don, I was hoping that would turn up soon!
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  18. #178
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...51#post5159751

    Charlie/Taz

    Above is the link you requested to the thread I started on my PCP rifle journey. Now I can stop throwing this thread off kilter...LOL But will keep checking in to see you are doing. Good luck!!
    Thanks. Looks like you are off to a good start.

  19. #179
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    I've been a stranger here for a while, been working the MKII in the other thread... https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...BE-at-50-yards

    I am down to maybe 1 box of good ammo for this rifle....had a chance today to add 10 bricks of the good stuff but it was all sold before the shopping cart could process my order.
    Even though I responded to their e-mail notification within seconds of receiving it I still lost out again...second time. Their computer bogs down under the sudden influx of orders and goes into a crawl...it's maddening.

    So...I still want to shoot and went by the LGS and picked up a box of bulk ammo, it's all they had...(it's bad juju ammo )



    I thought I'd do a test today to set the accuracy bar with this stuff before I started practicing so I would be realistic in my expectations...



    Yah...it ain't a pretty sight. I don't like ammo at this speed, it always drops back to sub-sonic at the target...I chrono'd it at the muzzle and then placed the chrono in front of the target to get those numbers.
    Besides the sonic issue it has lousy ES & SD's ... interesting how those numbers agree on both ends of the range.



    It was looking pretty hopeful in that first 4" black target to the left...that's the first 10 shots on a clean 'wet mopped' barrel...looked like the ammo was going to season the bore pretty quickly but it started scattering on the next target to the right. It did settle some but it didn't settle in the 75 shots today.
    Maybe it'll season the bore in upcoming target sessions but I have my doubts. We'll see soon as this is pretty much all I have to work with now.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  20. #180
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    GOOD NEWS, were back in business after all!

    Got another e-mail from Eley this morning, they had Match, I gave it a try for 30 boxes and scored! By next week I'll have it...that just makes my day! Thank You Jesus!

    Just check their web-page, looks like they are still in stock... https://www.killoughshootingsports.c...1021_010081054
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check