Titan ReloadingRotoMetals2WidenersLee Precision
Load DataPBcastcoMidSouth Shooters SupplyRepackbox
Reloading Everything Inline Fabrication
Page 4 of 36 FirstFirst 1234567891011121314 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 707

Thread: New to using a 'F-CLASS BR' at 50 yards...

  1. #61
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    2,078
    I think you found your calling.

    You really need to get some ammo in the 1060's/1070's. Most rifles prefer ammo in these speeds.

    The machine marks I'm talking about are not only on the bolt face. They are on the inside of the bolt body/fp cavity & on the fp itself. There were soooooo many machine marks on both it was called "hip hop don't stop" every time I pulled the trigger.

    You really should take the bolt down and give it a good cleaning along with looking for wear and putting a marker on it to check uneven wear.

    1st shot flier:
    More often then not it's a bolt/fp issue. This is why it's important to get the bolt right and tight. Getting the bolt dialed in doesn't hurt accuracy either. After re-working the bolt on that cz luz my groups shrank +/- 40%.
    Once you rule out the bolt isn't causing those 1st shot fliers (typically vertical slop/movement) you should take a piece of rubber from an innertube or 3/8" wide rubber band and cut strips 1" long and 3/8" wide. Put them in the stock at the end of the forearm/front end of the stock and tighten your hold down screws to the normal torque setting. If the 1st shot fliers go away you have a bedding issue.
    If you think is a lube/fouling issue take a dry patch to the chamber/leade area in the bbl and clean that area and test. If the 1st shot fliers go away or are decreases by doing this get jb bore paste and use it every time you take the rifle out on a patch to the chamber/leade of the bbl. Re-test without cleaning every now and then, after enough polishing with the jb bore paste the 1st shot fliers will go away if this is what's causing them.

    A $10 inspection camera from e-bay that works with a cellphone is $$$ well spent. This area of the bbl is where the game is won or lost. A little peak at it every now and then doesn't hurt.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    If you try all of those things above and you still get 1st shot fliers give the whole bbl a good cleaning. A stripped down bbl typically takes 1 shot per inch of bbl to re-season it. Better highly polished/lapped bbl's take +/- 2" per shot to season the bbl. After cleaning the bbl you still get 1st shot fliers that' telling you the bbl wasn't installed correctly (typically too tight).

    If you do decide to take the bolt apart please post some pictures.

    Anyway, I'm looking forward to your testing.

  2. #62
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    8,879
    http://varmintal.com/a22lr.htm

    Here is the link I promised a couple of days ago wrt barrel tuner settings and why the settings are different at 50 and 100 yards. You need to get close to the end to see the graph. See section "Tuning and Distance"

    Likely TMI but I found it interesting.

    I am a KISS person and not shooting to win pickup trucks...so much of this is not too practical for my pedestrian needs. I certainly would not invest in threading a barrel, and add a $200 tuner to shrink groups by .25" at 50 yards on a plinking or squirrel rifle. But I find it all very interesting none the less to see what can be accomplished.

    I need to be careful though. I started looking at adding a tuner to my .308 (already threaded) that is shooting MOA when it hit me....what difference will shooting 1/2 MOA make in the field shooting Bambi? Like OS OK says...easy to go down the rabbit hole!!!

    BTW, love your threads OS OK.
    Don Verna


  3. #63
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    El Dorado County, N. Ca.
    Posts
    6,234
    You may have diagnosed that 1'st shot cold barrel flier.
    Since shooting much Aguila in the Peep & Globe thread, I have had to be habitual about cleaning that chamber each morning because that lube on the Aguila really gums things up, so much so that the extractor has pulled loose from a fired rim a time-r-two and I had to dig them free with a small flat blade screwdriver.



    I put a few drops of Hoppes on one of these barrel mops give it a good cleaning, clean the mop on a rag & go back in to dry the chamber a few swipes and call'er good to start the day.

    I've been doing that with the CZ also just out of morning habit ritual...I bet wetting the lead and first little bit of the bore just may be the culprit.
    We have marveled at how that first shot is mostly in the same general area with the MKII. I really haven't cared much about where those first 5 warmers go so long as they prep the barrel for the days work.

    EDIT: Thanks dverna... for that link and the very kind words!
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  4. #64
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    El Dorado County, N. Ca.
    Posts
    6,234
    Yesterday revealed a few 'clues' about some things . . .

    I haven't used this PAPPAS rest since I brought it home with the CZ, just set it aside for a day when I had a decent bench to use it on...
    But, I had a thought about seeing what it might do for comparing groups.
    We just saw the '0.5-22' tuner setting with the Eley Match & Eley tenex & we have already seen the grouping of the '0.5-20' setting...I thought why not see how much better this rest might show us if we are actually near a node?



    I added a 25 pound ingot of range scrap to the aprox. 30 pound rest also before going at the groups.
    I also made the cheek riser and installed it since I have been happy with the height of the two carpenters pencils I used temporarily.



    Also made a piece for the bottom of the stock to ride that 'V notch' butt support on the rear of the rest...

    Here's where I got a 'clue' about a couple of things...



    It appears that the groups have 'opened' even more. I didn't expect that since this rest takes a large percentage of the 'operator error' out of the group size...."err . . . at least I thought it was suppose to do that?"

    Later...sitting in the shop & slugging a couple brews I studied these groups over and over till I was getting cross-eyed. Why the heck are those groups like that?
    Then it occurred to me that we not only affect the group size by the tuner setting but also the amount of 'buffering' we induce into the test, either by our embracing the stock or by the 'padding' of the front rest. We just talked about that the other day.



    This PAPPAS rest has no padding, it is a hard seat here on the front...that 'foot' of the bottom of the forestock actually is spring loaded into the rest, it's tight and firm.



    I think this just may well be the reason that the CZ came with a 'full pound' of added weight to the tuner?



    Perhaps he was trying to get that muzzle to stay put & not move while the several pressure waves traveled the length of the barrel & back before the projectile actually cleared the muzzle?

    Correct me if I'm 'wrong thinking' ... but ... that PAPPAS rest is like adding even more steel to the mass of the barrel and giving the pressure waves even more paths to travel & resonate & reflect from. Unnecessarily complicating the issues.
    I think it needs to be padded with a thin covering of high density rubber foam in that front clamp assembly & even at the rear under the butt stock?

    However I am not concerned with this other than asking myself 'questions of why this and that' about nodes.
    It was interesting using the rest for the first time, it dials windage & elevation easily & precise but it also takes my job away from the process and besides exploring these 'Rabbit Holes' with all these experiments, I'm out there to develop a good & repeatable skill set launching projectiles.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  5. #65
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    8,879
    The front rest should not used to try to hold the muzzle from moving during recoil. If that was the intent, instead of those half circle spring loaded pieces on the front support cradle, they would be tapered pins that meshed with tapered holes in the fore end. IMO, you want very light spring pressure to on those half circle pieces to hold the stock in the same left to right spot but not enough pressure to "clamp" the fore end. But frankly, I am just guessing.
    Don Verna


  6. #66
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    2,078

  7. #67
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    8,879
    I just checked the price of that rest....WOW!!!

    Looks like I will be using by old Caldwell unless I win the lottery,
    Don Verna


  8. #68
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    El Dorado County, N. Ca.
    Posts
    6,234
    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    The front rest should not used to try to hold the muzzle from moving during recoil. If that was the intent, instead of those half circle spring loaded pieces on the front support cradle, they would be tapered pins that meshed with tapered holes in the fore end. IMO, you want very light spring pressure to on those half circle pieces to hold the stock in the same left to right spot but not enough pressure to "clamp" the fore end. But frankly, I am just guessing.
    No, it doesn't do that. Maybe my description gave you that idea...sorry.
    It is spring loaded and firmly held that's all, no side to side slack or wiggle & it slides back from the forestock stop very smoothly on those spring loaded points.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  9. #69
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    El Dorado County, N. Ca.
    Posts
    6,234
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    I made a composite picture of your latest range session. It is photoshop magic but it is not fake. That is what your shooting would have looked like if you did not change your POA between 5 shot groups.

    I think it is impressive. I don't really know what would be the standard by which to judge but I am thinking you might be limited by the ammo's ability. You are using ammo right out of the box with no sorting or sizing, right?

    Attachment 278904

    I am guessing that is a one inch circle and the 20 shot group is under a half inch.

    Tim
    Since you posted this composite picture I have started thinking that this would be a good way to look at these 5-shot test overlapped on each other to reflect the overall 'hole of the matter'. An excellent way to look at all the test in that string of 5-shot groups.

    I've been looking for a 'free' program for the Mac where I can do this in the future but being a computer dinosaur I am at a loss of what to do.
    Could you briefly go over your program & what you did to do this?

    I sure would appreciate the help Tim.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  10. #70
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    4,845
    Quote Originally Posted by OS OK View Post
    Since you posted this composite picture I have started thinking that this would be a good way to look at these 5-shot test overlapped on each other to reflect the overall 'hole of the matter'. An excellent way to look at all the test in that string of 5-shot groups.

    I've been looking for a 'free' program for the Mac where I can do this in the future but being a computer dinosaur I am at a loss of what to do.
    Could you briefly go over your program & what you did to do this?

    I sure would appreciate the help Tim.
    I use Microsoft Paint.

    I erase the areas that I don't want to over write the base then I turn on transparency under the select pull down.

    Attachment 279147

    I select and copy the areas that I want to superimpose using either rectangular or freeform selecting and paste them on the first group. The alignment is easy since your POA is a crosshair I keep a bit of cross hair not the center but some of at least two limbs.

    I have also done this by tracing on paper like you did. I use pins with one in the center for alignment. You can align individual shots into groups turn 5 shot groups into shot groups. One thing I learned was that often one or two wild shots or fliers will often define group size. Shooting for score they don't hurt as bad.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	New group.png 
Views:	376 
Size:	9.7 KB 
ID:	279148

    PM me if you need more coaching on using Paint.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  11. #71
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    west central Illinois
    Posts
    7,699
    Thanks for posting that. I am going to use that idea in the near future.

  12. #72
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    El Dorado County, N. Ca.
    Posts
    6,234
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    I use Microsoft Paint.

    I erase the areas that I don't want to over write the base then I turn on transparency under the select pull down.

    Attachment 279147

    I select and copy the areas that I want to superimpose using either rectangular or freeform selecting and paste them on the first group. The alignment is easy since your POA is a crosshair I keep a bit of cross hair not the center but some of at least two limbs.

    I have also done this by tracing on paper like you did. I use pins with one in the center for alignment. You can align individual shots into groups turn 5 shot groups into shot groups. One thing I learned was that often one or two wild shots or fliers will often define group size. Shooting for score they don't hurt as bad.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	New group.png 
Views:	376 
Size:	9.7 KB 
ID:	279148

    PM me if you need more coaching on using Paint.

    Tim
    Thank you very much for the explanation Tim... all I need now is to get my Daughter in Atlanta to come home and find the right Mac program, install it and teach the Daddy!
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  13. #73
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    west central Illinois
    Posts
    7,699
    I don't know Mac computers. That said, I can't think there isn't a comparable program already installed on the Mac.
    The Paint program comes with Windows. It is not a third party program you need to pay for.
    It has been supplied with Windows since the very early days.

  14. #74
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Pa.
    Posts
    171
    I found this for MAC , Cocoa-based paint program similar to Microsoft Paint and MacPaint. Don't know if this will be what you need but it's free. Here's the link

    https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/25050/paintbrush
    Armed society is a polite society
    Live A Little Learn A Lot

  15. #75
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    El Dorado County, N. Ca.
    Posts
    6,234
    Thanks Harry... I've found several free apps also. Even spent the time for a few online tutorials but when I sign into the 'App/store' the dang 'sign-in window thing just sits there with that dad-blamed circle going round and round, does that for hours...locks up the entire store app. on a tab & I can't even close it.
    I got so mad, I unplugged the computer twice in a row...I didn't fall for it a third time!

    Looks like what I'd like to do and what I'll actually do about this is two different things. Too bad...I think this is a genius way of examining several 5-shot groupings to see a bigger and more complete picture!

    GOD . . . I HATE COMPUTERS!
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  16. #76
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    west central Illinois
    Posts
    7,699
    We had a day of sunshine with temps in the 60s today, so I went to the range with my CZ MTR to give it a spring workout.
    I should have paid attention to the wind instead of the temperature. 15 mph and gusting from the side.
    Really tough shooting conditions.
    Besides that, I had a brain hiccup and didn't take my best ammo with me.
    Probably just as well since it was so windy.
    I was hoping to have some good results to show but it was not to be.
    I did get some good trigger time and some sun, so it wasn't a total loss.

  17. #77
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    4,845
    Quote Originally Posted by OS OK View Post
    Thanks Harry... I've found several free apps also. Even spent the time for a few online tutorials but when I sign into the 'App/store' the dang 'sign-in window thing just sits there with that dad-blamed circle going round and round, does that for hours...locks up the entire store app. on a tab & I can't even close it.
    I got so mad, I unplugged the computer twice in a row...I didn't fall for it a third time!

    Looks like what I'd like to do and what I'll actually do about this is two different things. Too bad...I think this is a genius way of examining several 5-shot groupings to see a bigger and more complete picture!

    GOD . . . I HATE COMPUTERS!
    Before I started using pictures I used to do dot plots. This is 4 five shot groups done with dot plots. Cast bullet .22 hornet groups.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20150215_151740.jpg 
Views:	30 
Size:	30.6 KB 
ID:	279247

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  18. #78
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    9,078
    I once cast 22 boolits for my 223. I then much later cast more for the 22 hornet. Anyway, once I got out of recovery ....

    I still have some of castings actually. They must have fully aged by now.

    Actually, it would be awesome if I could get the mold to cast well - the old hornet is just lying there screaming to get taken out and fired. Bulk .224 bullets are reasonably cheap and I have a bunch but 22 rf is just so much easier - and lot's of fun.

    Any way, my last range session got cancelled due to some idiot getting covid, going to the doctor, being sent for covid test and told to go home and isolate but chose instead to go to the gym and several other places resulting in a city wide lockdown!
    But this coming Sunday the range is open so I can finally try out my new batch of ammo and get some trigger time.
    OS, you do realize that you get me all fired up to go shooting, don't you?

    In fact, looking at your rifles makes me wonder whether I could fit my Cooey barrel which has a tight chamber and bore onto my Mauser which has a rust damaged bore. It has a beautiful crisp and light trigger! Being a collectors piece I would not want to make any mods to the action itself. It's also a momento from my father and the rifle I grew up with so it would be nice to use it as a target rifle. I should ask over on gunsmithing tips and tricks for thoughts on that one.



    I think I'll fit a scope on it and take it to the range, one never knows, it might even group with one of the ammo selection I have. The last time I tried it it shot a pattern!
    Last edited by 303Guy; 03-09-2021 at 02:26 PM.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  19. #79
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    El Dorado County, N. Ca.
    Posts
    6,234
    That bolt looks like it was designed for use with a close fitting scope?
    Is that an 11mm rail built into the top of the receiver?
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  20. #80
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    9,078
    Yes it's an 11mm. I had a scope on it before for my father because of his eyes. I found it had to be mounted high to allow the spent case to eject. I've just fitted a scope with high mounts and it shoulders rather nicely. I have a long neck so all my scopes are mounted high.

    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

Page 4 of 36 FirstFirst 1234567891011121314 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check