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Thread: New to using a 'F-CLASS BR' at 50 yards...

  1. #141
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    I has a single Eley Tenex that misfired on the first hit and fired on the second hit as well. The difference being mine went into the group with rest of them.
    Just goes to show, even the best can make a mistake now and then.
    Actually, I am amazed they can provide ammo of this consistency using mass production techniques.

  2. #142
    Boolit Master
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    Well I’d be using a witness mark or a reading off a datum so I could get ‘er back pretty good.
    Don’t worry my top self stuff is cci std.
    On a good day if I can shoot the tacks out holding the target up On the frame I’m happy as a new born under a blanket.

  3. #143
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Good idea about the witness mark. You can use blue painters tape on both so you do not mark up the barrel or tuner.
    Don Verna


  4. #144
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    OK boys...guess what the tuner setting is today...?



    "The tuner is setting on the table!"

    I got the testing done with the Eley 'tenex' & the 'Match'...



    It ain't nothing to brag about but I think the ES of these rounds are exaggerated with a bare barrel.
    In a round-about way...I think that tuner is actually averaging the ES of the rounds, bringing the node to the muzzle the ES is minimized (me thinks?)....remember the early testing with the tuner? There's some pretty good groups here...



    So, in my estimation...the tuner is worthy of the work it takes to tune it to the ammo you have.
    Of course I'm open for debate on that...what do you fellas think?

    I spent the afternoon reclaiming some of that nice soft lead back from my catcher backstop...

    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  5. #145
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    That's a lot of 22 boolits!

  6. #146
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pressman View Post
    That's a lot of 22 boolits!
    That's roughly 2,100 of the 40 gn. but the sad part is that I lost 7.5 lbs. of oxidized lead that wouldn't go back into the melt...

    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  7. #147
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Losses to oxidation and dross are always higher than you want and often higher than one would expect.
    Somewhere around here, I have a 5 gallon bucket full of dross from smelting scrap lead. Mostly from range scrap.
    I usually recover about 75% by weight.
    Never have tried pure 22 rimfire lead in any quantity.

  8. #148
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    If you have any stearic acid (the wax found in lanolin), throw some in and it will flux the dross and release some of that lead in it. It will do nothing to the yellow stuff. The yellow stuff gets airborne very easily and gets absorbed through the lungs and intestines and give one lead poisoning. Stearic acid probably costs more than the lead that is recovered but it does clean the melt and is probably not that expensive. Then again, if it aint broke .....

    OS, I wanted to ask, how is that rifle of yours bedded? Without taking it apart to look of course. Is the barrel free floated? Maybe you've already mentioned it and I've forgotten.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  9. #149
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    I was just looking at the bedding around the receiver, they did a really fine job, neet & clean, looks like a grey epoxy type...no voids & yes the barrel is free floated.
    I haven't wanted to crack it open because I have no way of determining...at least approximately what the torque is right now...she's solid as a rock.
    I know eventually I'll have to do that though...I wished that old Fella would have answered my letter to him, I could know a lot more by now than I do.

    That brown stuff gives me the willies when I see it, I hold my breath when I'm tending the pot & then back off a distance upwind and breath...I'd just as soon not fool with it.
    I think the trick to upping my recovery rate would be to take the lead from the catcher much more often and store it in a container until I'm ready to melt it down.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  10. #150
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Thanks.

    One trick is to have a lid mounted rich burning gas flame covering the melt pot. Not sure it's worth the effort though unless it would prevent that fine oxide dust from forming. It is something I have thought of but it's much simply just to use an electric hot plate and scoop off the dross. Most of that dross was on the lead already anyway.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  11. #151
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    I don't normally have such a high rate of oxidized lead from the catcher...it's those lil soft small pills pert-near disintegrating when they hit the steel, all those small frags are just perfect for oxidizing quickly.

    Most of the lead was so fine it looked like wet concrete...took an hour on low flame to dry it good.



    Before I started catching this soft lead my recovery looked like this from large caliber slugs that would hit the sidewalls and smear, not nearly so much fines.



    Before I started messing with the .22lr all I shot was the .45ACP mostly, after a summer's practice I'd get a nice haul like this...



    This is what's behind that white target face that's tearing up that lead like that...



    I keep two steel buckets back behind the rail ties...one for soft lead and the other for standard pistol fodder...



    My big brother helped me install it quite a few years ago...

    Last edited by OS OK; 04-01-2021 at 06:30 PM.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  12. #152
    Boolit Master
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    Nice recovery set up.

    Shoots good without the tuner.
    Seems to like the match more.
    The tenex is stringing with more groups shot.
    Could be a loose nut behind the butt or fouling.
    Could be one of the 27 other variables.
    Have you checked your ignition system.
    Are you placing the ammo in the chamber the same each time.
    I have no answers.
    They should shoot all in one hole.

    If worse comes to worse it could make a half decent rabbit rifle for spot lighting out the window or tin can marauder.

    You should be able to shoot cockroaches wit it as far as you can see them.
    And grass hoppers on the veges or caterpillars if they are lying vertical.

    Just thinking positively.


    Now you just have to tune it so the low velocity shots shoot with the barrel in an up more bend and the fast ones don’t quite so high so it evens out at exactly 50 metres/yards..
    Then you can go off in a purple fit of rage when you show up to a shoot and they are out a tad in their measuring.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by barrabruce; 04-01-2021 at 10:09 PM.

  13. #153
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    So on the tuner and whether it's worth it. Hell, yeah! OK, so there doesn't seem to be much improvement with the tuner but what I seem to see is that the tuner is causing a wide change in POI. That could indicate a whole half node out of tune. Or not? So what about making larger changes until there doesn't seem to be much change, then try fine tuning? If that makes any sense.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  14. #154
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Just an opinion here and worth what you paid for it.

    If a small change on the tuner makes the setup go from decent/good to poor, the rifle is far too picky about adjustment and something is very wrong.
    The rifle isn't shooting bad the way it is. It just isn't shooting as well as you want it to.
    Trying for consistent perfect, one hole groups is admirable but possibly not achievable. Looking for that magic combination that gives perfection may be a very expensive hunt. And then have it all change on you because some small thing like temperature on a given day throws it off.

    Ammunition costs money. Great ammunition costs a lot of money. How much do you have that you can spend? How long are you willing to experiment?

    At this point, I would go to a competition as an observer. Find out what the winners are using(rifles, equipment and ammo). Watch what they are doing as far as technique. See just how good their groups are. Are they really that much better than yours?
    You can buy equipment and ammunition. It's just money after all. Technique may well be the hard part. That and time to spend working on it.

    The bad part is you cannot control your ammo. Lot to lot variation and variations within a lot will still bite you. You can load match centerfire ammo good enough to shoot half MOA or better. Not certain you can buy rimfire ammo that consistent.

    My biggest gripe with rimfire target rifle/ammo shooting is this. I have to spend more money on a rifle, equipment, and ammo by a large margin, to achieve even close to the same accuracy I can get with relatively inexpensive centerfire rifles and handloads.
    The up side is the barrels don't wear out nearly as fast with rimfire.

    Rant over. Back to our regularly scheduled content.
    I think I need to go back to bed. Or maybe go to the range and get some trigger time in.

  15. #155
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    Go to a shoot.
    It’s not uncommon to see $10-15k sitting on a bench and sundries.
    A paddock full of wind flags.
    It’s amusing to see over time what is in and what is not.
    It was leopold scopes because they we better than weaver
    Then March
    Now it’s nightforce because they are 1% clearer or optically better or some such.
    Tuners never used to work as you can get the lot number and the machine it came off by the case or pallet after you went down south and tested some lots.
    Not that mere mortals seam to be invited.
    Now everyone has to have this flavour tuner because joe blogg whooped ass one day with one.
    It was exactly 15 * muzzle crown.
    Now it can be cut just straight.
    Whoo and it just keeps on getting better.
    And them barrels and actions and triggers that work with ball bearings as shears.

    I think it’s about how much you really want those "points for the hall of fame " as to how far you are willing to go and pursue it.
    It’s not how good the gun system shoots after a point.
    It’s if you can endure the conditions and not make as many mistakes as your rival on the day.

    Get some targets and shoot them.
    There are not many "screamers" handed out I can tell you for all that’s good and righteous.
    Last edited by barrabruce; 04-02-2021 at 09:04 AM.

  16. #156
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Let's see now.
    Eley Tenex at $19 per box a case is 100 boxes so $1900 How many cases on a Pallet?
    Lapua $20-25 per box.

    March or Nightforce scope at $3000 plus

    Anshutz BR50 rifle $3000-4000

    Rest $1000 and up(unless you get lucky like OS did)

    This is just getting started. Still need all the wind flags and such.

    I don't have the money for that.
    I felt bad when I spent $700 on my rifle and use a $450 Leupold on it. I bought a brick of Tenex and won't use it except at matches because I can't afford to replace it in quantity so I shoot some $4 a box ammo that does well enough to practice with.
    I will travel less than 100 miles to a local informal match and still run up against setups that cost 5 times what mine does.
    Oh well.

  17. #157
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Some of these considerations here are a little out of my parameters, those parameters that I started with...they haven't changed.

    I do realize that the 'Big Boys' in this 'one hole game' have pert-near unlimited resources supplied by the manufacturers who glum onto their talent to sell their gear.
    My goals are clearly defined in my first posting of this thread...

    [[[from post no. 1 ... Well....I figured that this is my opportunity to go down a new Rabbit Hole...to learn a new shooting style & discipline...to go somewhere I've never been before.
    I am an ole'retired'Fart and shoot here at my little property in the Sierras. I don't compete in any sanctioned matches or even know anything about competition, I just enjoy precision shooting and handloading & casting...been doing that since 74.]]]

    The bottom line here . . . I'm just learning & discovering things about the .22lr that have never occurred to me before and developing a much better skill set than I have ever had, this is a kick in the pants each time I set my gear on the shooting bench.
    For that brief time that I start preparing my target & test plan for the day to the moment I'm done and sitting in the shop with a cold brew studying the day's results, I am in another world where the political turmoil in this world and the mass hysteria of the masked world around me doesn't exist. This is a good place to be & I enjoy being here.

    It is the quest of success that I enjoy, the mental challenge and the change of the home-spun equipment that I enjoy...who would have guessed at all the little things that are involved in trying to shoot a one hole group more than one time in a row a few times in life.

    See where we started just a little while back...



    Look at where we are today...



    All of this today as a result of trying to learn about a 'Peep & Globe' with a $500 rifle sitting on a picnic table on a bipod...



    This has already taken a year of my life this month, that's when it all started last year. Honestly I think that this quest has been one of the most rewarding of all the shooting I've done ever. Don't get me wrong, I still love the 1911 and don't intend to leave them sitting on the top shelf in the safe much longer, this quest will have to share time with them now that summer is here again.

    I don't intend to visit any shooting competitions or rub elbows with the 'elite', they don't have what I have...this sublime peace of mind I have in my shooting...they are driven by a different set of goals, don't care to speculate what those goals are since every man is different but I can tell you this much...I think their shooting world is high pressure, high tension...I'm not so sure they, in general get as much personal satisfaction on a daily basis of shooting, they have to perform and that's different.

    So for the future, I will still tinker & shoot & mull on what to do next...listen to all your good advise and mull on that also.
    Elley tells me they intend to have another shipment sometime about mid month here in April, keep the fingers crossed and maybe I can score enough good stuff to last the summer.

    I got my primary sponsor back! The wife doesn't know that I found where she hid it!



    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  18. #158
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I did not see Charlie trying to compete with the best but to be better than he was. I see how that is fun as I am going down a similar path but with a PCP rifle because I will not spend $20/box for match ammunition.

    My desires are different than most. I plain enjoy shooting but I am cheap. If I get 1" groups at 50 yards with an air rifle I will be OK with that. My goal is to do better, but getting better is part of the fun...unless it becomes an obsession.
    Don Verna


  19. #159
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    My aim is to compete with myself. That's it. Just get the best I can do with what I've got. One of my challenges is to shoot with open sights and see just what I can do. Now I'm wondering whether my eyes are up to it. But, I have found that the rear notch if it's just right and in just the right place, allows me to see the target and front post just nicely, so I'll be trying that out next session.

    One of my rifles has a terrible trigger. I should work on it but I've been lazy. However, I find it quite challenging to shoot groups with this rifle and am tempted to leave just like it is for that reason. I know how accurate it is and The scope is reasonable for my eyes so I know its me when it doesn't perform. That's the fun part.

    Then I have something to look forward yo - mounting that aperture sight and going down that rabbit hole! I just have to pic up the material to make the mount.

    Then of course there is the fun of following OS on his quest.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  20. #160
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    I did not see Charlie trying to compete with the best but to be better than he was. I see how that is fun as I am going down a similar path but with a PCP rifle because I will not spend $20/box for match ammunition.

    My desires are different than most. I plain enjoy shooting but I am cheap. If I get 1" groups at 50 yards with an air rifle I will be OK with that. My goal is to do better, but getting better is part of the fun...unless it becomes an obsession.
    I saw a guy at the bench rest range a few months ago on a nice day with a top end PCP air rifle doing bench rest at 50 yards. The rest he was using was more elaborate than the one OS has.
    I don't remember the name of the rifle or scope he was using now. I do remember looking up the value just out of curiosity. It was around $2500. His scope was also expensive by my standards.
    The guy was good. He was shooting a large target with lots of individual rings with tiny dots for an aiming point in the center and he rarely missed it.
    Of course he has his own compressor for his air cylinders. No idea what that costs.
    He was using Eley Tenex match pellets.

    Bench rest air rifle can be just as expensive as rimfire match if you let it.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check