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Thread: New to using a 'F-CLASS BR' at 50 yards...

  1. #621
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robg View Post
    over here at the bisley range they are now shooting 300yard comps for 22rf .
    Feel free to post some pictures & commentary if you like. It'd be interesting to see all the wind flags they use, groups too.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  2. #622
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    ROBG...check this out! Conditor22 just sent me this link.



    Start at about 11:00 in...
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  3. #623
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    Now that is so cool watching kids and the elders learn from it. But that too dang cold for me anymore!
    Armed society is a polite society
    Live A Little Learn A Lot

  4. #624
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    I've been staying inside and out of the foul air...we have had some really large forest fires lately...so much smoke that you wake up every morning with a head-ache!

    SO . . . I've been watching a lot of BR videos & discovered that when I say I've been 'free recoiling' the CZ...I HAVE NOT.
    Today starts the first card of what is actually 'free recoil' ... "No touchie nada!" No cheek weld, no shoulder contact & no touching the stock with my chest. Heck...I'm barely in contact with the bench.
    So I took this cheek riser...



    OFF...



    Now I have to float my head above the stock comb/riser and make adjustments to the front rest without any leaning on the bench or rifle, at first it was not too bad. But...if you notice the third row down, I went all over the place.
    I got a burning muscle in the back of my neck. This is going to take some practice & toning of the neck muscles.

    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  5. #625
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    I have a CZ 452 trainer with the stock set up for open sights. I had to use high rings to mount a scope because I didn't want to remove the open sights. This set up a situation like yours as far as cheek weld.
    For a while, I used a strap on cheekpiece to give a cheek weld and the rifle shot mediocre at best. I took the cheekpiece off and just floated my head as you describe. The rifle became a very accurate shooter. It is as accurate or better than my 457 MTR.
    I shot this rifle in this manner at the last competition I participated in and fired my best score so far.
    I am still using my shoulder as a backstop for the butt so I am still in contact with the rifle. I have not changed my method of trigger pull either. Both are things I should probably experiment with.

  6. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    I have a CZ 452 trainer with the stock set up for open sights. I had to use high rings to mount a scope because I didn't want to remove the open sights. This set up a situation like yours as far as cheek weld.
    For a while, I used a strap on cheekpiece to give a cheek weld and the rifle shot mediocre at best. I took the cheekpiece off and just floated my head as you describe. The rifle became a very accurate shooter. It is as accurate or better than my 457 MTR.
    I shot this rifle in this manner at the last competition I participated in and fired my best score so far.
    I am still using my shoulder as a backstop for the butt so I am still in contact with the rifle. I have not changed my method of trigger pull either. Both are things I should probably experiment with.
    taz . . . If I touch in the slightest way, shoulder, cheek or breast I will move that POI by 1 full diameter.
    Something you might try is the 'trigger pinch' ... this way I don't have my hand on the wrist of the stock.



    It makes that 'terrible trigger' on the MKII easy to manage. ( 2 pounds 6 ounces )
    On the CZ542 it is the 'Bee's Knee's'. ( 10 ounces )
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  7. #627
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    It will take me some practice to get used to that trigger technique. I have never used it.
    If it will cut down my groups by a bullet diameter, I would be all in with it.
    Something I will need to try.

    It would be easy enough to do a no touch on the shoulder given the bags I am using. I squeeze the rear bag for elevation anyway.

    I tried the 452 trainer on the Caldwell rock front rest but it didn't like it. It likes the softer bag better for some reason. Probably soaks up the vibrations better.

  8. #628
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    I got to the range today and took two rifles with me. A Ruger Precision Rimfire and a CZ 455 Varmint, Neither of which had been shooting well for me.
    The Ruger came with 30 MOA rail on it and I couldn't get any scope I had to sight in. I managed to get a 0 MOa rail from Ruger for it and got the rifle sighted in today. I was hoping that by getting into the middle adjustment range of the scope, that the groups would be better. I was thinking that the scope, being near it's limits, might cause some irregularities because of internal instability.
    The rifle shot better this way, but still not as well as any of my CZ rifles.

    The CZ Varmint shot well today. This is the first time I used this batch pf Eley Match in it.

    Conditions were windy today(15mph with swirling gusts) with the temperature rising fairly rapidly from 72 to 83 degrees. Occasionally, the wind would calm for a while and the groups would be a little better.

    The top row of targets were used for sighting in and testing some other ammo. Targets 1-5 were from the Ruger and were disappointing. There were only two groups of the five that were acceptable. Only one out of six of the practice groups that are not pictured was acceptable.
    I think I will be giving up on this rifle.

    Targets 6-12 were from the CZ. Most if these are acceptable with some being outstanding. The ones with fliers I will blame on the wind. Still not bad, even with the fliers.
    Regardless of appearances, all groups were five shots.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    OS OK-------I tried the squeeze trigger pull with both rifles. The CZ seemed to like it. The first five targets using the CZ were using that technique.
    They were slightly tighter than the last two on the average and the center of the group was more consistently in the same spot. The last two groups were fired using my standard trigger technique and, while very good, move the impact point a little.
    This is something I will need to work with to improve on.

  9. #629
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    taz...when I get to targets like 6, I think..."boy I got it now! It's coming together." then...they open up again. Frustrating ain't it?

    I'd say that's pretty dang good shooting for a windy/gusty day!

    When I'm 'trigger pinching' I have to be free recoiling the rifle too. If my chest or shoulder touch they spread out horizontally.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  10. #630
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    These were all cheek on the stock and shoulder on the buttstock. I don't have a rest that allows me to do a hands free on the rifle. Nothing to hold the rear end in place.
    I could mount the scope with some extra high rings to get my cheek off the stock, I suppose.
    As it happens, I forgot my front rest and all my bags today. I was working with the "board with a notch" front rests provided for those in need and a folded towel under the rear. I folded a towel to keep the forearm off the wood and give it some cushion as well.
    I am surprised I shot as well as I did. Things seemed to hold very steady, even with the equipment used so I can't complain much. Just my own silliness. In my defense, it has been nearly a month since I last got to the range.

  11. #631
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    Adapting and overcoming.
    I swear, if I had to pack up everyday and go to the range there would always be something I forgot. It's bad enough here having to go back in the shop for something. I get to thinking on what I'm working on that day and get tunnel vision...that's all I'm thinking about.
    It's a wonder I get dressed every day!

    This bag is overstuffed, it doesn't allow the butt to keep sinking in deeper and deeper with each shot & holds the rifle well and allows the rifle to slide.



    Since I started the Vintage Rifle thread, I need to find a new front bag for the Caldwell that will snug up to the small & narrow fore-stocks of the old single shots like the Win 67A and now the Rem 33a, I catch myself canting because of that.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  12. #632
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    The support pad that came with my Caldwell Rock front rest(similar to yours) works well with a flat bottom forearm. Not so much with standard rounded forearm.
    My other front support is a Caldwell DeadShot bag. It can be shaped a little and works well with the rounded forearms as well as the flat ones.
    I just switch them out as needed depending on the rifle I am using at the moment. Having a different pad for the Rock would be nice but I suspect just changing the rest is faster.

  13. #633
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    It's been a while... since I have shot the CZ452, I've been distracted with the Vintage Rifles Thread. Today I'm taking a break from the frustration of the iron sights and shooting a rifle & scope I can do better with.
    I thought I'd see if I can best my best score on the Green Monster Card, this is a tough target and I can't think of a single target that makes you work harder to get the POI agreeing with the POA.
    On the right is that last card I shot using the 'free recoil' technique, the left is todays attempt to best that...



    The top warmer targets are 5 shots each, the one on the right made me think I was going to be on my game today...funny how things can change on a dime & in no time...



    It's going to be a week before I can pick up that Vintage Remington mod. 33 for the 'Vintage Rifles Thread' so until then I think I will try to best that first card in the meantime.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  14. #634
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    Been shooting in the calm of the mornings now for too long.... Up here in the Sierras, 'fall' means wind. Today it was switchy from SW to S to SE...but it kept pretty steady for the most part. It varied all morning from 2.7 up to 7+ mph but I waited when it gusted so strong. Prolly an average was 3 or 4 mph but like I said, it was 'switchy'.
    Not complaining though, this is what I've been waiting for...to learn to compensate for wind...

    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  15. #635
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    I am going to test out a new rifle in a few days. CZ sends a test fired 5 shot group print with each rifle. The print was fired in that individual rifle using RWS Match ammunition at a distance of 50m. This test group is the tightest group I have seen for any of the CZ rifles I own. It measured 10mm which is just under .4". I realize it is just one group but I am hopeful it will bear out with my ammunition.
    This new rifle is a 457 AT-One with the 24 inch barrel.
    I got it home today and it now wears a 4-16X44mm target scope with a 20mm tube. It will be interesting to see what this rifle will do.

  16. #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    I am going to test out a new rifle in a few days. CZ sends a test fired 5 shot group print with each rifle. The print was fired in that individual rifle using RWS Match ammunition at a distance of 50m. This test group is the tightest group I have seen for any of the CZ rifles I own. It measured 10mm which is just under .4". I realize it is just one group but I am hopeful it will bear out with my ammunition.
    This new rifle is a 457 AT-One with the 24 inch barrel.
    I got it home today and it now wears a 4-16X44mm target scope with a 20mm tube. It will be interesting to see what this rifle will do.
    This is exciting news taz...but your just teasing us without some pictures of this beauty!

    I got out before it rained today and worked the wind again. I tell'Ya one thing...deliberately shooting at a 10 or 11:00 spot out on the 8 ring makes for a really exciting 'X' when you cut one of those.

    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  17. #637
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    I tell'Ya one thing...deliberately shooting at a 10 or 11:00 spot out on the 8 ring makes for a really exciting 'X' when you cut one of those.

    Yes it does.
    I try to see indications of where the bullets are going to end up and aim "off" in order to hit where I want it to.
    Not so nerve wracking for me as I used to do that when shooting Olympic style archery at longer distances. Sometimes at 90 meters, I would need to aim completely off the target in order to hit the center. It got spooky.
    You don't adjust your sight for the wind because the wind may decide to stop blowing and then what do you do?

  18. #638
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    You don't adjust your sight for the wind because the wind may decide to stop blowing and then what do you do?

    I know...I've moved my truck & added another flag so I can see the wind all the way to the target now...I can set up the shot & take a quick peak around the scope to insure conditions are still the same for the set-up, then if I doodle around too long the wind has stopped on me & I get exactly what I'm shooting at...the doggone 8 ring!

    ...

    I replaced all the flags with fresh engineers tape, the ones I had, had become stiff and brittle from the sun...they are all 24" long & according to the wind meter a 90º flag is 5 & 6 mph, a 45º flag is 2.5 to 3 mph...only problem now is that they don't always agree with each other! Then I come into the 9 ring at 10 or 11:00, by the time I decide to do that often times the wind will change again...a fella has to make quick decisions and not second think it or say bye-bye to any chance of an 'X'!
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  19. #639
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Here are the pictures of the rifle you requested.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I got to the range today. Nice shooting day. Wind was 3-6 mph but swirling a little. I had to pay attention to it because it was enough to take me right out of the center if I did not. Most of the time, I was able to just wait it out and find a calm time to shoot.
    I slowly worked through all the things you need to do getting a rifle sighted in and shooting as it should.
    I experimented with different front rests and bags to see what it liked. I also found this one liked the front rest just in front of the magazine best.
    The last adjustment I made was to check the action screw torque. I found the front screw was tight but the rear was almost loose. I torqued it down and the rifle really started grouping.
    I was shooting Eley Match for the first 100 rounds and it was doing well. For the last 25 shots, I switched to a box of Eley Tenex.
    Here they are. All groups are 5 shots.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The one low shot was my fault. I just blew it. The other 24 shots pictured were all inside the bullseye.
    The largest group other than the one with the blown shot measured just under 1/2 inch edge to edge. The smallest group measured roughly 1/4 inch.
    During the process of getting everything adjusted and set up, I had several 5 shot groups that were right at 1/4 inch. I had several 5 shot groups that were just one slightly enlarged hole with one flier.
    I was shooting Eley Match for the first 100 rounds and it was doing well. The Tenex really made it shine.
    I am very pleased with the way this rifle is shooting.

  20. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    Here are the pictures of the rifle you requested.
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	289887
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I got to the range today. Nice shooting day. Wind was 3-6 mph but swirling a little. I had to pay attention to it because it was enough to take me right out of the center if I did not. Most of the time, I was able to just wait it out and find a calm time to shoot.
    I slowly worked through all the things you need to do getting a rifle sighted in and shooting as it should.
    I experimented with different front rests and bags to see what it liked. I also found this one liked the front rest just in front of the magazine best.
    The last adjustment I made was to check the action screw torque. I found the front screw was tight but the rear was almost loose. I torqued it down and the rifle really started grouping.
    I was shooting Eley Match for the first 100 rounds and it was doing well. For the last 25 shots, I switched to a box of Eley Tenex.
    Here they are. All groups are 5 shots.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	resized30037000003.jpg 
Views:	25 
Size:	51.5 KB 
ID:	289889

    The one low shot was my fault. I just blew it. The other 24 shots pictured were all inside the bullseye.
    The largest group other than the one with the blown shot measured just under 1/2 inch edge to edge. The smallest group measured roughly 1/4 inch.
    During the process of getting everything adjusted and set up, I had several 5 shot groups that were right at 1/4 inch. I had several 5 shot groups that were just one slightly enlarged hole with one flier.
    I was shooting Eley Match for the first 100 rounds and it was doing well. The Tenex really made it shine.
    I am very pleased with the way this rifle is shooting.
    That is fine shooting!!

    Nice rifle
    Don Verna


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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check