Reloading EverythingTitan ReloadingInline FabricationWideners
Load DataRepackboxLee PrecisionMidSouth Shooters Supply
RotoMetals2
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 26

Thread: .45 Colt brass will not fit the case holder, is this antique brass?

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    21

    .45 Colt brass will not fit the case holder, is this antique brass?

    A friend of mine picked up a couple of bags of .45 Colt brass (for me) at a local gun show the other day.
    The first bag was fine, no issues.

    The second bag had 26 pieces that would not fit my Lee #11 Shell holder or in the cylinder of my Ruger Redhawk chambered in .45 Colt.

    Upon examination I saw that the base of the case with different as there was no grove about the case.
    Are these older cases?

    Can I resize these to fit my Redhawk? Since the #11 does not work, is that a shell holder for the press and the Lee AutoPrime?Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1-20210214_172918.jpg 
Views:	36 
Size:	46.8 KB 
ID:	277650Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1-20210214_172725.jpg 
Views:	31 
Size:	63.1 KB 
ID:	277651

    Also, when looking into the case the primer pocket looks different, not flush with the base.

  2. #2
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    21
    I may have found my own answer, poking around on the 'net.'
    These may be 'balloon head' cases for black powder loads.
    If anyone here is interested in them, let me know.
    Last edited by sarge912; 02-15-2021 at 12:02 PM.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master dbosman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    East Lansing, MI, USA
    Posts
    1,995
    The mis-fit is one reason experienced loaders often have multiple shell holders for the same case.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    180
    I think cases used with black powder also had the copper primers

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    458
    A Lyman x-11 shellholder fits those 45 colt balloon head cases. I've loaded 32 S&W, 38 S&W, 44 spl, & 45 colt balloon head cases with light loads just to say I did it, but probably won't do so again.

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    over the hill, out in the woods and far away
    Posts
    10,158
    Smokeless loads of the pre-WW2 era sometimes used balloon-head cases also. I have both .44-40 and .45 Colt Rem-UMC brass similar to that pictured. Quite often when trying to full-length resize these the head pulls off, leaving the case body stuck in the die. I wouldn't use them other than for light loads assembled for one gun, mouth resized only using the Lyman tong tool.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Cass county, Michigan
    Posts
    655
    Look inside the cases, the "balloon head" cases will have a groove around the primer pocket. If someone wanted to use these cases with the original loading of holy black powder they tend to hold a grain or two more powder. Personally, I would not use these cases with any smokeless powder loads.

  8. #8
    Moderator


    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Just outside Gun Barrel City, Texas
    Posts
    9,480
    You should be able to tell a balloon head case by looking inside it.
    In school: We learn lessons, and are given tests.
    In life: We are given tests, and learn lessons.


    OK People. Enough of this idle chit-chat.
    This ain't your Grandma's sewing circle.
    EVERYONE!
    Back to your oars. The Captain wants to waterski.

  9. #9
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by Winger Ed. View Post
    You should be able to tell a balloon head case by looking inside it.
    Thanks for the replies.
    I set them aside already. They are like the ones on the right.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Pitt Gas,PA
    Posts
    678
    I have a box of 45 cases that look like yours,shells are for rail punch tool.the primer pocket looks just like the balloon head case one in picture

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    760
    I only buy new cases.
    Once fired cases only from a reputable dealer who will refund your money or exchange those bum cases.
    Gunshow cases can be worn out cases with no life left especially if run thru a tumbler with case polisher added.
    See if the seller will put his name and phone number on the bag.
    Pass on them if they only have the price.
    Don't pay new price for someone's scrap brass.
    A good indicator is when some won't fit in a shell holder.
    Balloon head cases are easy to spot by the seller. He knew they were in there when he sold them!

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Lesage WV
    Posts
    876
    most of OLD were thin not ment to reload and for sure not with the new powder.

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Deep South Texas
    Posts
    12,820
    I reload balloon head 45 Colt cases with skinny rims with standard loads and they hold up well. I use a Lyman 310 tool to deprime, prime, seat bullets an crimp. I FL size in an old Lyman hand "shell resizer".
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Deep South Texas
    Posts
    12,820
    Quote Originally Posted by too many things View Post
    most of OLD were thin not ment to reload and for sure not with the new powder.
    Nope, not buying it. Elmer Keith developed his hot 44 Special loads using his 240 grain bullets over 18.5/2400 in balloon head cases. When solid head cases came along he dropped the charge to 17.5 grains.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Deep South Texas
    Posts
    12,820
    Quote Originally Posted by curiousgeorge View Post
    A Lyman x-11 shellholder fits those 45 colt balloon head cases. I've loaded 32 S&W, 38 S&W, 44 spl, & 45 colt balloon head cases with light loads just to say I did it, but probably won't do so again.
    Well the Lyman X-11 will fit those cases without an extractor groove, UNTIL you full length size a case and drop the ram to extract that case. About every third case will pull off the rim before it comes out.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    760
    You can resize those cases with the swollen bottoms.
    If you unscrew and remove the decapping pin from the sizing die, you can press those cases into the sizing die up to the rim.
    You need to hold a flat piece of steel or a large flat washer with a small hole atop the ram on your bench press to bear against the shell as it is pushed into the die up to the rim, but NO FURTHER.
    Then you insert a steel pin inside the top of the sizing die and tap out the sized case. It only takes a 1/2 inch of movement and the case will fall out.
    The case will now fit in your shell holder.
    If you are sizing balloon head cases this
    way, you will need to use a pin or piece of pipe with the center drilled out 3/8 inch on the end of the drive pin or you will flatten the primer pocket inside the balloon head cases.
    The early LEE Handloaders had this clearance hole in the drive pin for balloon head cases.
    Best to use case lube even if you have carbide dies.
    If you are careless and try to run the case into the die past the rim , you can damage an expensive sizing die and perhaps break the carbide insert if one is soldered in your die.
    I shot the balloon head cases with medium loads of smokeless powder.
    They were not made only for black powder but were made during the time when only black powder was available.When smokeless came along they made the cases stronger because they didn't know how before.
    It's TRUE the cases are a little larger because of the balloon head but they weren't called balloon head till the newer cases were made. The new cases are much stronger but a lot of old Colt pistols are around that can have bulged chambers from people loading Mag loads in them.
    Thereafter those bulged chambers on both new and old Colts still bulge the cases fired in them.
    That's a good reason right there to only buy new brass and to resist the temptation to shoot maximum loads in anything except a Magnum.
    The reloading books always say to start reloading with the starting loads.
    My friend passed away now but he always started with the Maximum load and even a little more.
    All his guns developed Bulged chambers and he couldn't fire the brass twice in them.He always bought new and gave me his old brass. I would resize them using the die and remove decapper trick to press to the rims. I used them for light loads or snake shotloads or wax loads.
    They worked with medium loads as well.
    Reloading has a lot of twists and tricks to it. I always learn something new every now and then. Maybe a better way or maybe correct something I been wrong about.
    Again Good Luck.
    Remember Just because a chancy thing didn't ever hurt you, doesn't mean something won't go wrong next time and kill you or someone else! Always Take Heed.
    It seems to increase survival time.

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Deep South Texas
    Posts
    12,820
    Alferd....I lube the case, and size it in my 45 Colt "Shell Resizer". I use my $35.00 Harbor Freight 1 ton arbor press to press the cases in. I then turn the die over and use the knock out rod that comes with the die. The end of the rod is cupped so it won't flatten the pooched out primer pocked in the bottom of the case. I bought this 45 Colt Shell Resizer on Ebay for $6.00 bucks, but I am certain they go for more than that now. I load the 260 grain Keith SWC over 6.2/Bullseye.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    760
    More
    Check inside your cases since the crunch is on , a lot of people are shooting their old ammo and balloon cases will show up in .44 special, .45 Colt, 38 special and .32S&W as well as .32 Long S&W and .38-40 and 44-40.
    45-70 Rifle as well.I have seen balloon heads in the past. Now with ammo nonexistant, people are shooting up their old ammo that's been stashed away.Everyone expects the ammo to come back. I expect they are right.
    I hope

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    760
    Char Gar
    I dig what you are doing and appreciate your atitude.
    Further more you are a Gentleman and a Scholar of the First Water.
    I salute you.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Perryville, Ky,USA
    Posts
    4,513
    If some one has a copy of Dean Grenell's book, Book of the .45 (probably out of print as mine was old as the hills), there was an article in it on the .45 Colt. As well as I recall, the original RCBS .45 Colt shell holders had the problem that they wouldn't accept all .45 Colt brass so they had to modify the design and open the tolerances. You may have one of the old shell holders. One of you guys back me up here if you have this book as #2 son has mine in another state and my memory is getting as wrinkled as I am.
    Still, no reason to be messing with reloading balloon head cases unless you're a purist and then only with holy black in cases in good condition. Just asking for trouble./beagle
    diplomacy is being able to say, "nice doggie" until you find a big rock.....

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check