Dillon XL650 - Binding & Case Feeding Problem

[beeser]

Since loading 32 ACP on my Dillon XL650 I've experienced 2 problems that have never occurred before in years of using this press.

1) The cases do not feed consistently. Occasionally the cases do not stack vertically above the casefeed bushing preventing it from entering the bushing. Tapping the press by the casefeed tube knocks the offending case into alignment.

2) The press binds somewhere at the top of the stroke just as the handle is lowered and again a little lower in the down stroke. The binding is so severe that it knocks some powder out of an open case. I aligned the platform with Dillon's alignment tool, the one that fits into the powder funnel. The binding went away for a while but returned even though the alignment was OK.

I've had numerous email responses from Dillon but haven't been provided with any solutions yet. I've used this press for almost 5 years of light use loading 45 ACP, 38 Special and 9mm without issues until recently loading 32 ACP and 32 S&WL. This is when the problems surfaced. Any ideas on what might be causing this, esp. the binding?

[Three44s]

I do not have a Dillon press of any kind but when my Hornady LNL gets twitchy with small cases, it flips powder out. That powder gets in to the works and that ain’t good.

Three44s

[heebs]

1. double check that you have the correct case feed bushing. Make sure the bushing is centered every time. I had it one time where it didn't center, just need a little lube and TLC.

2. I am assuming you are using carbide dies, Make sure your decapping pin isn't too far down. Can stick in primer pocket at top of stroke and then as it comes out. Also make sure the pin is the correct size. make sure die isn't too far down and pressing on your shell plate, causing resistance at top of stroke.. try putting a little spray lube up in the die, some are finicky and need the lube. I have put it on a q-tip and went around the carbide. you can also have excessive pressure with brass that is over stretched due to unsupported chamber. If so IMHO the brass is junk unless you roll size them. Just a few suggestions. Good luck.

[JimB..]

The second binding sounds like the finished round isn’t exiting the shellplate smoothly. If you’ve added a bearing above the shellplate try removing it.

[beeser]

The case feed bushing is the correct "green" one according to the Dillon manual. I think the problem is the size of the case feed tube itself. The 32 ACP case is so small that it stacks cockeyed in the tube. When it enters the bushing it sometimes hangs up on the edge of it. Tapping the press slightly knocks the case vertical allowing it to fall into the bushing. That's my take on it so far and might be easiest of the two problems to solve.

All dies are carbide. The decaping die is set at the correct depth according to the manual. I'm sure the binding problem isn't occurring there because it happens without a case in that station. The second binding happens before the case enters the ejector pin. There's an occasional binding at the ejector pin but I'm aware of that and have a solution for it. Also, I have not added a bearing above the shell plate. The press is bone stock with the exception of Redding Competition carbide dies. Dillon didn't make the dies for this caliber at the time I set the press up for 32 ACP.

I don't know if this helps but all new Starline brass is being used.

After looking more closely at the binding it seems to first occur at the powder dispensing assembly when it moves upward slightly and comes back down in the slack where the assembly is attached to the die. The binding is more like a catch. I'm not sure this is where the problem takes place but it's my first lead. I don't have a clue on the second binding or catch.

I'm a little disappointed with Dillon's attempts to solve these problems. The press has performed almost flawlessly in the years of use loading other caliber bullets. I have no clue why using it on 32 cal has created such an issue.

[JimB..]

New brass will often stick on the powder funnel. Can’t tell if that’s what you’re describing, but if so try tumbling the brass in old dry media or, it you aren’t setup for that, put some lube one the funnel or case and see if the problem goes away for that case.

Your observation about stacking in the tube makes perfect sense, don’t they have a small diameter tube?

[jmorris]

First thing I would do is stop loading, two pins and remove the tool head. It will keep you from making a mess or mistake going into a loaded round and remove the powder measure/fail safe from the equation as well as the powder funnel.

Now that that stuff is out of the way, stroke just the press, is it still sticky with just brass going around and falling into the bin?

If so, shut off the case feed, empty the tube, is it still sticky with out anything?

If so, remove the shell plate, is it still sticky?

If so, remove the priming system...

You get the point, process of elimination will allow you to focus your efforts on the problem quickly vs us telling you what tail to chase. Once you have located the area that is giving you problems we won’t be wasting your time with guesses.

[beeser]

New brass will often stick on the powder funnel. Can’t tell if that’s what you’re describing, but if so try tumbling the brass in old dry media or, it you aren’t setup for that, put some lube one the funnel or case and see if the problem goes away for that case.

Your observation about stacking in the tube makes perfect sense, don’t they have a small diameter tube?

The binding is more like it's catching onto something instead of a rubbing type of bind as a powder funnel rubbing on the inside of a case. Hope that makes sense. And yes, I think a smaller diameter tube is the solution for the cases not stacking vertical and catching on the case feed bushing. You would think that Dillon would've come up with that but they didn't.

[onelight]

My presses are not a Dillons but I have found that cases rinsed with ArmorAll ultra shine wash and wax run much smoother on my progressive than when it is not used after pin cleaning and I have found this to be true with new cases also , it may not make as much difference with Redding dies , Even new cases I now give a rinse and dry before loading this was a tip from the folks here . Be easy to try a handful and see if you can feel any difference.

[beeser]

First thing I would do is stop loading, two pins and remove the tool head. It will keep you from making a mess or mistake going into a loaded round and remove the powder measure/fail safe from the equation as well as the powder funnel.

Now that that stuff is out of the way, stroke just the press, is it still sticky with just brass going around and falling into the bin?

If so, shut off the case feed, empty the tube, is it still sticky with out anything?

If so, remove the shell plate, is it still sticky?

If so, remove the priming system...

You get the point, process of elimination will allow you to focus your efforts on the problem quickly vs us telling you what tail to chase. Once you have located the area that is giving you problems we won’t be wasting your time with guesses.

It's not quite that easy. When the problem (binding/catching) first presented itself I was part way into the loading process. Everything seemed to work fine up until then. I tried to isolate which station might be causing the problem but wasn't able to so I stopped loading and sought some help. I think it was someone on this forum that suggested there might be a problem with the platform alignment. So I obtained an alignment tool from Dillon and performed that task along with a thorough lubing of the press and double checking all of the die settings, etc. Back to loading 32 ACP again and everything seemed to work fine for about 20 rounds and then the problem raised its ugly head again. I tried to isolate the problem to one station but couldn't. I tried running blank cases through but no binding occurred. I also ran the same loaded cases through starting at Station #3 and no binding occurred. That might point to Station #2 (powder station) but if I put a case in that station alone again no binding occurs. Since aligning the platform may have temporarily solved the problem I checked that and it hadn't moved and was still in alignment. So yes, I've tried to isolate the problem but it's not quite that easy. It's like one of those intermittent electrical problems that are hard to diagnose.

[beeser]

My presses are not a Dillons but I have found that cases rinsed with ArmorAll ultra shine wash and wax run much smoother on my progressive than when it is not used after pin cleaning and I have found this to be true with new cases also , it may not make as much difference with Redding dies , Even new cases I now give a rinse and dry before loading this was a tip from the folks here . Be easy to try a handful and see if you can feel any difference.

Thanks for the suggestion but I'm convinced the binding is not caused by the cases sticking to any one of the dies or powder funnel. I've experienced that before. This is more of a hard catch on something. The odd thing is that it happens twice on the same stroke, the first one at the top being more severe.

[onelight]

I would follow jmorris's advice . I have have wasted a lot of time trying to find a shortcut to what I thought was a simple problem when taking it one step at a time would have been much faster and not drive my vocabulary back to my misspent youth

[JimB..]

Got to agree with @jmorris, at each step run 200 cases. If it’s showing up within 20 cases it’ll almost certainly show up within 200.

That said, I’d still grease the powder funnel first to eliminate it. I know it doesn’t feel like that’s where the problem is, but at that point in the stroke the only thing happening is the release of the powder funnel. If you want to be more systematic, just pull the powder funnel and leave everything else alone, run cases until the problem appears or you get to 200 cases.

[beeser]

I would follow jmorris's advice . I have have wasted a lot of time trying to find a shortcut to what I thought was a simple problem when taking it one step at a time would have been much faster and not drive my vocabulary back to my misspent youth

Sage advice but if you read my post just above yours you'll find I have already tried to isolate the problem. Of course there's something I may have missed though. I'll keep trying. It is possible that a combination of factors happening at the same time causing the overall problem. Considering that there are so many XL650s in use I was hoping someone had experienced the same problem and had a solution.

[beeser]

Got to agree with @jmorris, at each step run 200 cases. If it’s showing up within 20 cases it’ll almost certainly show up within 200.

That said, I’d still grease the powder funnel first to eliminate it. I know it doesn’t feel like that’s where the problem is, but at that point in the stroke the only thing happening is the release of the powder funnel. If you want to be more systematic, just pull the powder funnel and leave everything else alone, run cases until the problem appears or you get to 200 cases.

When the binding/catch problem starts it's consistent and not intermittent. In other words it happens on every stroke. As mentioned before I'm sure it's not a result of a die or powder funnel sticking on a case. That's more of a friction type of binding. What I'm experiencing is more of a hard catch.

[1006]

Check the Ring Indexer for cracks. You can see it by looking upward from under the platform as you slowly lower the platform. This part breaks when the press binds up and them causes a failure to advance the shell plate properly, often leaving the shell plate just slightly out of alignment.

[Handloader109]

You never said, but do you lube the brass? The dillon spray lube works great and with my 9 or 380acp, makes a world of difference. I assume you are using both the correct cylinder and the bushing below it. The colored case cylinder should align the next 2 or 3 cases. I've had to adjust the lever a bit to insure the 9mm cases didnt hang. I'd have one or 2 percent hang before I adjusted. There is a 3d printed arm that will fit over the center bolt that replaces that dang spring case ejector (what a hokey ***) It TOTALLY eliminates hanging rounds from catching. Best piece of plastic on my press.
If any of you want one, I print for postage. PM me.



Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[beeser]

Check the Ring Indexer for cracks. You can see it by looking upward from under the platform as you slowly lower the platform. This part breaks when the press binds up and them causes a failure to advance the shell plate properly, often leaving the shell plate just slightly out of alignment.

I couldn't detect any cracks in the ring indexer while it's installed and don't remember any when it was removed while aligning the platform. Too bad really as that would've been an easy fix. An extra one is included in my spare parts kit. I can't seem to duplicate the binding/catch problem without actually loading some bullets. So I'll be doing that next and try once again to locate the problem. I read through the entire manual again to see if something was set up incorrectly. The only thing discovered was I tighten the two screws on the clamp that secures the powder dispenser assembly to the die. I've always done this but apparently its wrong according to the manual. The screws are supposed to backed off slightly to allow the assembly to move freely. I don't think this is the problem but I'll make the correction anyway.

[onelight]

You sound to experienced to have missed this , but could the flare on the case mouth be enough to cause the problem in entering the seating die and perhaps at the crimp section of the die . I don't have any Redding pistol dies but some manufacturers now use more bevel on the entrance to dies than they did when I started buying dies in the 70s I assume they have done this because of the wide use of progressive presses now.

[jmorris]

It's like one of those intermittent electrical problems that are hard to diagnose.

Those can be hard to pinpoint.

When the binding/catch problem starts it's consistent and not intermittent. In other words it happens on every stroke.

Occurring continually makes it much easier to pinpoint, address and eliminate. It’s easy to get blinded by frustration but a calm, methodical, process of elimination will over come most any mechanical problem.

If you think it has something to do with the machine itself and nothing to do with the new to you set up or components, you can go back to loading and see if the 45, 38 or 9mm, you have been loading for 5 years without any issues, is still a seamless operation. That, would be huge in eliminating a number of causes and guesses we make on this thread.

Think about it, in one step we could either focus on the press itself or eliminate it as the cause. That’s a pretty good leap from where we are.


Aside from that, I would single out this.

. The odd thing is that it happens twice on the same stroke, the first one at the top being more severe.

What happens at both ends of the stroke and what direction are you going? For clarity, are we talking about handle down, ram up being the top of the stroke? If so, does it bind going into the dies or when they are being removed from the dies or maybe a little later when the measure returns and the expander is being pulled from the case mouth at #2?

At what point do you feel the next resistance? When it contacts the indexer ring or when it tries to rotate the shell plate, perhaps all the way ram down/handle up and primer seating?

It’s entirely possible you could have more than one issue, why it’s important to locate, isolate and eliminate them one at a time.

Does the press have any non Dillon products on it or is it an as shipped, stock 650?