Lyman/ Accurate Mold 313445 in 327 Federal Magnum ?

[jjnpg317]

I'm looking at Accurate Mold edition ( 31-095M ) and want to know if this is considered a wadcutter to be shot at lower speeds ? It's odd looking to me and when I first saw it didn't know if was a SWC or WC. I have plenty of SWC for 327, but no wadcutter mold for lighter loads.
Thanks

[Mk42gunner]

I've got a single cavity Ideal 313445. The only reason I keep it around is it shoots acceptably in my little I frame in .32 S&WL. I never had good luck with it in the .32 H&R Ruger SSM or any .30-.31 caliber rifle.

I think it was designed by Ashley Haines back in the 1930's, but I could easily be wrong on that.

I figure it has to be a weird little SWC, because the nose is way too long to be called a button nosed wad cutter.

Robert

[Green Frog]

The 313445 is a weird little bullet that was only cataloged by Lyman/Ideal until some time before the modern resurgence of high performance 32 revolvers. There are lots of newer designs out there that do one thing or another better than this old design, but I find it to be pretty good as an all purpose bullet... not the best for any specific task, but acceptable for just about anything. I’m holding on to my old DC Ideal 313445 just because.

Froggie

PS when I got interested in the 327, one of my reasons (besides that it was new and different) was that I could use heavier bullets... this runs counter to using the 313445, so I haven’t tried it in the longer case. The smallest weight I use in my 327 is 105 grains. I may have to try some of these lighter bullets just to complete my research.

[rintinglen]

I have an NOE clone that has seen some use in the 327, but I haven't used it much. I tried it with some Power Pistol Loads (a powder touted by Brian Pearce in his HANDLOADER magazine article a few years back), but accuracy was merely mediocre. I have done no other testing with this boolit in the 327.

PS. I do not recommend Power Pistol in the 327 It has been at best an average performer, with lower velocities and larger groups than the H-110, 296 loads that my guns seen to prefer.

[Green Frog]

Rintinglen, on the subject of powder... have you done any experimenting with the Accurate Powders #7 or #9? They both look promising to me in the 327 with heavy bullets. I have a little bit of #7 and a whole bunch of non-canister equivalent to #9, and have been doing a little with that NOE copy of the Ideal 3118 that from my mould drops at a solid 125 grains. It's not for the faint of heart!

Froggie

[Guesser]

I have used A#9 in 327 with good results, also RamShot Enforcer, very close to A#9. 2400 also works better for me than H-110. I use CCI 500 SPP with all of the above. I got more consistent ignition than with my usual Winchester SPP. All these powders were used with my hand cast Lyman 311316 sized .313 and fitted with a Hornady GC. Several different commercial loobs used, I didn't see any difference from one to another. Ruger Single 7, 5.5", Ruger SP-101, 4.2"; and Taurus Model 327B2.
Good cartridge, good guns, I'll stay with it!

[Green Frog]

Guesser,

IIRC, that 311316 is essentially a 3118/311008 with a gas check, right? Are you ever using it unchecked? Would you be willing to share your charge weights for A#9 and 2400, either here in public or via PM? I’ve got that big ole Roger 327 Eight Shooter that was built on their Super BH frame, so it is certainly stout enough for anything you are safely loading in just about any other known handgun.

TIA ~ Froggie

[rintinglen]

Froggie, the 311-316 is sort of a gas checked 3118, in the same sense that a 358-156 and a 358-429 are both SWC's, but at least in the case of my Lyman molds, they aren't even close to identical. I have never had much luck using Gas-checked designs without gas checks, so I can't help you there, but the 311-008 that I have is too long in the nose to fit my Single 7's cylinder when crimped in the crimp groove, and while the SP101 might take em, I use other boolits that fit all of them. Accurate powders have (or at least, had) spotty availability in California so I have seldom used them. In fact I have never used No. 7, or No.5. I did use up a pound of #9 in 44 magnum loads, but was not sufficiently impressed to buy more.


The 311-316 is on the left, the 311-008 is second from the right.

I tried the 311-316 (with gas checks) with 11.0 grains of 2400, and it shot well, but I had groups that were just as good without the bother of gas checks with other boolits, so I did no further experiments. This year, I have been loading more bulk ammo, 38's and 9mm's, and not experimenting so much. (The 35 mile drive to the gun club also limits my ability to explore alternatives.) The heaviest boolit I have monkeyed with is the 311-465, which is a Louverin designed 122 grain boolit that shoots very well in 30-30's, but if I want a heavier boolit, I use a bigger gun.

[Green Frog]

Rintinglen, if you would like to give the 311445 that started this thread a try, I believe I can spare my mould to you for a while. If I get too lonely for it, I'll just use the 311492 that casts an even stranger wadcutter! Send me a PM if you would like to try it out.

BTW, I have a mould on loan right now from another friend here... the Lee Group Buy 32 Keith design. Of course Keith himself said he wouldn't bother designing a 32 mould because the 3118 was just what he would have designed, or words to that effect, but Dale53 persuaded me to at least try this idea that Keith regarded as redundant. Anybody else in love with this strange SWC? Dale and I loaded up a sample of 32 H&R rounds with bullets from his "Keith" mould and they shot pretty well, so I guess I'll have to cast up a bunch before I have to return this mould just so I can say I've got them.

The upshot of this is, although the majors have been pretty stingy with their 32 moulds and mould designs, they're worth a search. Fortunately, the "big three" of 32s, S&W L, H&R and of course the 327 FM all seem to thrive on a variety of weights and designs, so it is only necessary to find what your gun likes, which should be pretty easy to do.

Regards,
Froggie

[John Boy]

313445 Wad cutter bullet designed for the .32 S&W Long. (PB, SWC, 95 - TP is 445

[Mk42gunner]

I think even Lyman didn't know what exactly to call this little boolit as evidenced by John Boy's post:

313445 Wad cutter bullet designed for the .32 S&W Long. (PB, SWC, 95 - TP is 445

In the sentence, it is clearly called a Wad cutter, but in the parenthesis it is a SWC????

The reference to the TP brought to mind a good point; it must have been fairly popular because the SWC seating stem in the Lyman .32 handgun dies is the 445.

I keep trying to like my little SC mold, but it is temperamental to cast with.

Robert

[Green Frog]

Looking at the bullet from purely from the stand point of design features, there is no reason it shouldn’t make a good shooter at mid to low velocities. After all, it has that nice, long bore riding front band that is loaded outside of the case mouth. The shoulder should cut a good hole in paper or in small game. The nose, while short for a true wad cutter, should guide the round nicely into chamber mouths on loading. The more I look at it, the more I think I need to go back and try it again. If didn’t have so many 32 moulds, I think I probably would have used this one more, and with perfectly satisfactory results. YMMV, but I think it’s worth a look.

Froggie