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Thread: Remington and Marlin Brands

  1. #121
    Boolit Master Jack Stanley's Avatar
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    The world can always use a nice 1911 . Make it just a little nicer than the imports and in the same price range and I think they would be a steady seller .

    But that's just my point of view .

    Jack
    Buy it cheap and stack it deep , you may need it !

    Black Rifles Matter

  2. #122
    Boolit Master

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    Gave it all a re-read. Thanks to .376 Steyr for the "Deathwatch" updates.

    The vibe I'm getting is that the "restart with milquetoast enthusiasm" Ilion guns are nothing more (and are possibly less) than what they were making before the bankruptcy, and we are now waiting to see what RemArms generates in Georgia.

    Other than a few new renditions of the pin-on fire control system and replacing the fragile riveted-in extractor with the improved "spring fit" extractor, the 700 really hasn't changed since Day 1.

    It's what Georgia does with the 870 that I'll be curious about. Will they go back to the original aluminum triggerguard, milled extractor, and mag spring/barrel retaining system, or will they continue with (respectively) plastic, MIM, and the plastic ratchet Express system that precludes swapping barrels with the older system or adding a magazine extension to a "tactical" gun?

    But if you ask me, we're mourning the demise of the wrong American gun company.

    Think on it for a moment:

    Switch barrels and screw-in choke tubes aside, would you rather have an old 870 with its castings, rivets, and stakings or an all milled Winchester Model 12? (as I said way back in my first post, for a cheaper pump gun, the Mossberg 500/590is a superior tool)

    Would you rather have a "turned pipe" Remington 700 with it's aluminum floorplate and its safety that does NOTHING to secure the firing pin, or an "enhanced Mauser" pre-1964 Winchester Model 70?

    How about a Remington 572 pump .22 with a lot of re-hashed 870 guts vs. the practically indestructible John Browning designed Winchester 1890/1906/62A?

    Soft spot that I have for them aside, having learned to shoot on a 510 Single Shot, my Remington 511 mag fed bolt gun doesn't compare to the fit and finish of my market-equivalent Winchester 69A.

    We've got two to three generations of folks conditioned to believe that the post-WWII Remington product line is the Olde Schoole, quality stuff, when really, it represented the move to cheapening that doomed Winchester's (and other's) methods thanks to an ignorant customer base with no appreciation of what was being offered. In that context, a nice blue job and walnut on an 870 or 700 was just lipstick on a pig, and the market has plenty of other pigs. I had great hopes that CZ would remain a relative hold-out, but even they seem to be headed in the general direction of the sty.

    Make your own judgement call, but this vulture is going to keep circling over the used rack.
    WWJMBD?

    Is the mightiness of the pen still relevant after we roll the writing paper into cartridges for a Sharps?

  3. #123
    Boolit Master
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    I guess if having an all milled rcvr is important, then you'd be willing to pay a lot more for it. For a pump shotgun I really don't see the point. If I am going to spend good money on a shotgun it will be a nice double. And, yes, I did own a Win 12 at one point, a hand-me-down. Didn't keep it long.

    The 'ignorant' public wanted a decent gun for not a lot of money. Mossberg has made a lot of money catering to those folks as well as making more robust versions for the military. Remington tried to bridge the gap and did a pretty good job of it, IMHO. If you recall, Win tried the cheap route as well, not very successfully either.

    And, yes, I'd rather have a model 700 action than a Win mauser action

  4. #124
    Boolit Master
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    Ruglin/Marger news: https://www.americanrifleman.org/con...-the-holidays/

    Per the Ruger CEO: Expect the first shipment to distributors to start on 15 Dec. Good luck finding one, as he expects the demand to exceed the supply. "Ruger" will not be stamped anywhere on the new rifles. Marlin collectors will be excited about the serial numbers. Plus something about "Sapphire lever action guns."
    Remember: Ammo will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no ammo.

  5. #125
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Awesome, way to go Ruger!
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF.

  6. #126
    Boolit Master
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    Ruglin/Marger news: https://www.marlinfirearms.com/

    The new Marlin website is up, with what I assume is Ruger's plan for what models they are going to produce, including rimfires. Sorry, guys; it looks like a Model 39 isn't in the future. Some info on the new 1895, such as the new serial number system and proof-marks. Plus a warning not to put down deposits for new 1895s until they are in stock, which by the way, have an MSRP of $1400. Good news is you can buy a Marlin-branded barstool for only $140!
    Remember: Ammo will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no ammo.

  7. #127
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    If the rifles are well made then I wouldn't have a problem with higher prices. Remember, trying to compete on price killed the original Remington, Marlin, and Winchester in the first place.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF.

  8. #128
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by FergusonTO35 View Post
    If the rifles are well made then I wouldn't have a problem with higher prices. Remember, trying to compete on price killed the original Remington, Marlin, and Winchester in the first place.
    And complaining about either price or quality seems to be the bane of the industry - - everybody wants their 10/22 to look and shoot like an Anschutz; its somehow Ruger's fault that a 10/22 isn't an Anschutz; nobody wants to go out and buy an Anschutz; and an industry of "guys that get rich supplying mining equipment to the prospectors" has sprung up around the eternal optimists who want to "freeze their nuts off in a creek panning for the gold" to nickel and dime their 10/22 into an Anschutz. Like it or not, the classic lever action is a product of the "take a 30 pound block of steel and whittle it into a ten pound firearm" era. Ruger can no doubt improve this somewhat with their investment casting, but there's a lot more going on than Glock's process of pumping polymer into a frame mold and milling out a mostly rectangular slide.

    If anything, the customer base needs a harder slap upside the head than the industry does, but I fear educating the deer rifle buying public on why a Savage Axis is $300 and a pre-64 70 often brings over $1000 is too much to hope for, and the era of the home-built AR-15 isn't helping.
    WWJMBD?

    Is the mightiness of the pen still relevant after we roll the writing paper into cartridges for a Sharps?

  9. #129
    Moderator Emeritus robertbank's Avatar
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    Big Slug to quote one of our former Prime Ministers: "Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die"

    Happy New Year

    Bob
    Its been months since I bought the book, "How to scam people online". It still has not arrived yet!

    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

  10. #130
    Boolit Buddy Rapier's Avatar
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    Ruger made its place, and very big place, by building and selling utility, working guns, not glossy, pretty stuff. Ruger will get itself into real trouble by outstripping its price point in customer expectations. That is the exact reason Bill stopped making some of his successful guns, the cost of production forced a MSRP that exceeded customer expectations for a Ruger retail cost. Bill Ruger had a fine understanding of that company to customer relationship.
    “There is a remedy for all things, save death.“
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  11. #131
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapier View Post
    Ruger made its place, and very big place, by building and selling utility, working guns, not glossy, pretty stuff. Ruger will get itself into real trouble by outstripping its price point in customer expectations. That is the exact reason Bill stopped making some of his successful guns, the cost of production forced a MSRP that exceeded customer expectations for a Ruger retail cost. Bill Ruger had a fine understanding of that company to customer relationship.
    You may be right. Look at the Gold Label side-by-side, the Security Six revolver, and note how the #1 single shot rifle is now only an annual run in very limited calibers.
    Remember: Ammo will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no ammo.

  12. #132
    Moderator Emeritus robertbank's Avatar
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    Fellows Ruger has to make a profit. That is about all that drives their decisions. Anything else is just fluff.

    Take Care

    Bob
    Its been months since I bought the book, "How to scam people online". It still has not arrived yet!

    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

  13. #133
    Boolit Buddy
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    Of the Ruglins I've seen, I can't figure out if that's a Picatinny rail or a Pontiac bumper.

  14. #134
    Boolit Bub
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    Oooo... any chance they will resurrect the Marlin Camp in .45 ACP?

  15. #135
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaparral66 View Post
    Oooo... any chance they will resurrect the Marlin Camp in .45 ACP?
    Assuming the models shown on the new website represent Ruger's plans for the foreseeable future, I'm going to say it's unlikely. Though I'm surprised they show the Model 60 .22 autoloader, as I would think that would compete with the 10/22.
    Remember: Ammo will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no ammo.

  16. #136
    Boolit Master
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    I didn't see the Marlin Super Goose 10 on the new website. Maybe next month?...

  17. #137
    Boolit Buddy ACC's Avatar
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    Marlin

    I say all gun producers should move to Texas! A lot lower tax rate and hey it's Texas!

    ACC

  18. #138
    Boolit Master Tokarev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslug View Post
    If anything, the customer base needs a harder slap upside the head than the industry does, but I fear educating the deer rifle buying public on why a Savage Axis is $300 and a pre-64 70 often brings over $1000 is too much to hope for
    We used to be rich when jobs were here. Back then we bought $1000 guns. Now the jobs are gone to S.E. Asia, and we became poor penny-pinchers. Now we are looking for $300 guns.

    "Buy local" bumper stickers do not help: we can buy from a local chain, but it is still the same made-in-China crap. We are past the point of no return: if I buy made-in-China crap from a local vendor, then I have to go bankrupt, so I am forced to buy it directly from China. There is virtually nothing made-in-Canada or made-in-USA any longer, except for a few niche items, where price difference is not 3-4-10 times.

    There was one president who got it at least partially right, but he was day late and dollar short. If he had a like-minded partner up in Canada, it could have worked out better, but his luck was that we have Fidel Castro's bastard for a prime minister's. He is Chicom's pocket toy.

  19. #139
    Moderator Emeritus robertbank's Avatar
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    China hell. My new snow boots that cost $190Cdn and are good for -40C /-40F were made on Thailand. My $150 hiking boots were made in Vietnam. The snow boots are from a Canadian company and the hiking boots from an American.

    I have firearms made in China 1, Italy-8, Czech Republic 2, Belgium 1, Brazil-1, Switzerland-1, Japan-2, Can-1, UK -1, Ger-2, USA-10.

    Of the guns counted only five represent firearms NOT designed and made originally in the US. Of the five, three were made in the US but designed elsewhere by foreign companies. I'll be happy to pay $1,800Cdn for a Ruger made Model 39 but paying that much for one made in Turkey...not so much.

    Take Care

    Bob
    ps All my reloading equipment was made in the US. Powder from Australia, Canada and the US. Primers from China, US, Russia the Ukraine, France and Bosnia. Bullets from Canada, the US and my Garage. LOL

    pps Tokerov if you are referring to Trump; the duties he applied to Chinese products were paid by Americans not the Chinese. He even managed to lie about that. Do you know anyone who wants to work for $5. per hour or less sitting in front of a sewing machine in either Canada or the US? I hate to guess what either the snow boots or hiking boots would cost if they were made by either Canadians or Americans at $45.00Cdn an hour.

    Take Care

    Bob
    Its been months since I bought the book, "How to scam people online". It still has not arrived yet!

    "If the human population held hands around the equator, a significant portion of them would drown"

  20. #140
    Boolit Master


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    I don’t mind paying for quality, but today it’s harder and harder to find, no matter where it was made.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check