Skeeter’s 357 magnum load 358156 w/2400 in 38 SPL Cases

[Larry Gibson]

Consider the difference in case length with the 38 SPL case in the magnum chamber creates a slightly larger volume for the gas to expand into reducing the psi slightly. In smaller cases such as discussed this can make a difference same as varied seating depth can make a difference in psi and velocity.

[Kosh75287]

Perhaps I can do something similar with Unique and .38 Spl cases. I have no way to measure chamber pressures, but chronographing is easy enough.

THE LOADS MENTIONED BELOW WERE SAFE IN MY GUNS, BUT MAY NOT BE IN YOUR GUNS. ALWAYS CONSULT ONE OR MORE RELOADING MANUALS BEFORE USING ONLINE DATA, AND START 10% BELOW MAXIMUM AND WORK UP GRADUALLY.

Another "sorta classic" load in .357 Magnum was 7.2-8.0/Unique/158 gr. LSWC. Alliant no longer recommends the 8.0/Unique/158 gr LSWC load, and uses 7.8/Unique as a max. I certainly get hetter velocities than they report, though the records evade me.
I've used the top-most load in my Ruger PS-6 and my S&W M28 without incident, and without sticky extraction, nor flattened primers, etc. If memory serves, the 4" Ruger launches it at ~1275 and the 6" M28 comfortably breaks 1350 f/s.

[RJM52]

Have been using 6.0 grains of Unique with the 357156 in HP, Solid and non-GC form for several years now. The loads are in the old Lyman Manuals I have to equal the original .38-44/.38 High-Speed loads. They are crimped in the top groove.

Velocity is right at 1000 fps from a 2" S&W 649-2 and 1125-50 from 4-6" guns same as the original factory loading. They are just slightly slower than the current Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman solid and HP loadings.

Zero pressure signs, round primers, case about fall out of the chambers when the gun is inverted and shook... My guess would be 25-28psi area...

Larry...have you ever pressure tested the BB loads to see if they fall in the +P range...

Bob

[cabezaverde]

Have been using 6.0 grains of Unique with the 357156 in HP, Solid and non-GC form for several years now. The loads are in the old Lyman Manuals I have to equal the original .38-44/.38 High-Speed loads. They are crimped in the top groove.

Velocity is right at 1000 fps from a 2" S&W 649-2 and 1125-50 from 4-6" guns same as the original factory loading. They are just slightly slower than the current Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman solid and HP loadings.

Zero pressure signs, round primers, case about fall out of the chambers when the gun is inverted and shook... My guess would be 25-28psi area...

Larry...have you ever pressure tested the BB loads to see if they fall in the +P range...

Bob

.38 special cases?

[cabezaverde]

Have been using 6.0 grains of Unique with the 357156 in HP, Solid and non-GC form for several years now. The loads are in the old Lyman Manuals I have to equal the original .38-44/.38 High-Speed loads. They are crimped in the top groove.

Velocity is right at 1000 fps from a 2" S&W 649-2 and 1125-50 from 4-6" guns same as the original factory loading. They are just slightly slower than the current Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman solid and HP loadings.

Zero pressure signs, round primers, case about fall out of the chambers when the gun is inverted and shook... My guess would be 25-28psi area...

Larry...have you ever pressure tested the BB loads to see if they fall in the +P range...

Bob

.38 special cases?

[Larry Gibson]

"Larry...have you ever pressure tested the BB loads to see if they fall in the +P range..."

"BB", bevel base?

[robertbank]

Interesting that you gained 45 f/s velocity by switching to the longer .357 cases.

I am not sure the gain is significant. For all practical purposes such a gain would have little affect on performance at hand gun distances out to 25 yards. Even at rifle distances out to 100 yards I doubt there would be a quotative difference in performance given all the variables involved eg the shooter. The gain was virtually the same for both the revolver and the rifle. Given I used mixed cases without regard to head stamp participation ie totally random it is difficult to suggest a specific cause other than to report the difference.

Take Care

Bob

[robertbank]

Consider the difference in case length with the 38 SPL case in the magnum chamber creates a slightly larger volume for the gas to expand into reducing the psi slightly. In smaller cases such as discussed this can make a difference same as varied seating depth can make a difference in psi and velocity.

You might be on to something although my head says that over the 20 rds utilized in total there are so many other variables in play that such a loss in psi would be negligible but consistent. Something caused it and your explanation is as good as any. The drop was virtually the same using both the revolver and the rifle.

With the 358156 bullet Skelton gave us the option of gaining 357mag velocities using 38spl bras in lieu of 357 brass. I should also add I used SPP made in Bosnia of all places. Neither the 38spls or 357mag cases showed any sign of over pressure via primer flattening. Primers from both spent cases appeared to be the same. Not an absolute indication of over pressure but there you are.

Take Care

Bob

[robertbank]

Consider the difference in case length with the 38 SPL case in the magnum chamber creates a slightly larger volume for the gas to expand into reducing the psi slightly. In smaller cases such as discussed this can make a difference same as varied seating depth can make a difference in psi and velocity.

You might be on to something although my head says that over the 20 rds utilized in total there are so many other variables in play that such a loss in psi would be negligible but consistent. Something caused it and your explanation is as good as any. The drop was virtually the same using both the revolver and the rifle.

With the 358156 bullet Skelton gave us the option of gaining 357mag velocities using 38spl bras in lieu of 357 brass. I should also add I used SPP made in Bosnia of all places. Neither the 38spls or 357mag cases showed any sign of over pressure via primer flattening. Primers from both spent cases appeared to be the same. Not an absolute indication of over pressure but there you are.

Take Care

Bob

[Beerd]

"Larry...have you ever pressure tested the BB loads to see if they fall in the +P range..."

"BB", bevel base?

or Buffalo Bore?
..

[Larry Gibson]

If BB is Buffalo Bore ammo, no I haven't. I do have some 150 gr WC non +P to test though. May get to it next week.

[RJM52]

...yes, it was Buffalop Bore...

cabezaverde...yes, .38 Special cases...that's what makes them .38-44s...

[RJM52]

As I was born in 1952 recently I thought it would be nice to see what was available gun wise in that year...so I bought a 1952 GUN DIGEST...

Was looking at the Colt revolver section and under the Detective Special and Police Positive Special D frame gun there was a note that said good for all 38-44/.38 Special High velocity loads...

And in the ammo section there were still four listed loads for the .38-44...

Under Winchester there was a 158 Lead and a 158 Metal Piercing...both listed at 1175 fps from a 5" barrel.

Remington had a 110 grain Metal Piercing load at a smokin' 1330 and a 158 Lead at 1115...also from a 5" barrel...

[Kosh75287]

I wonder if, subjectively, Skeeter's .357 Magnum load produces as much flash in low-light conditions as 7.5-8.0/Unique/158 gr. produces, when both are shot from a 4" barrel. The latter load makes for quite the bright light show!
I don't think that any rigourous "Number of Candelas" measurement is necessary, but a cursory comparison might be of interest.

[Hi-Speed]

Thank you Larry and all for all the informative test data! Finally getting to read the thread sorry!

I too like the 358156GC in 38-44. My powder preference is 6.0 grs Unique with the 358156 crimped in the second crimp groove (loaded “long” 1.525” OAL). It is a very accurate load and averaged 1,023 fps during Nov. 2019 chronograph session in my 4 5/8 Ruger BH (extrapolated for a 6 inch barrel gets you approximately 1,090fps…which equaled the book specs of Remington’s 38 Special Hi-Speed (38-44) of the 1950s through its discontinuation in the early 1970s.)

As another data point, 6.0 grs Power Pistol and 158 gr LSWC, which is a Speer 38 Spl +P max, gets nearly the same velocity as the 6.0 grs Unique/358156GC loading. 6.0 grs Power Pistol/158 gr LSWC avg 1,019 fps…less pressure with comparable velocity.