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Thread: Skeeter’s 357 magnum load 358156 w/2400 in 38 SPL Cases

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks...am just surprised that the full diameter front driving band will fit into the chamber lead/throat...

    That said...I am one of those who size their boolits just a tad larger than throat diameter...
    Last edited by RJM52; 02-07-2021 at 12:12 AM.

  2. #42
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    Again, depends on the revolver. Some have straight throats so the bullet should be sized to the throat (my S&W and Colt Anaconda for example) . Some have slightly tapered throats (my Rugers for example) so the bullet can be sized to the rear of the throats to freely chamber instead of the smaller front diameter.

    I normally GC, size and lube the 358156s at .358 and they chamber fine in my Ruger SS when in 357 Mag cases seated/crimped to the 1st groove and in 38 SPL cases to the 2nd groove. Were I to seat them out to the 2nd groove in 38 SPL cases for use in my M15 or M19 I would run them through the Lee .357 sizer before loading.
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 02-07-2021 at 01:45 PM.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  3. #43
    Boolit Master
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    Thank you, Larry! I once tried the "Skeeter" load of 13.5gr. 2400/ 158 SWC, and didn't find it to my liking. This may give me incentive to re think my antipathy for 2400!
    IT IS A FINE AND PLEASANT MADNESS !

  4. #44
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    Larry,
    Thank you for all your hard work. My Dad gave me his Colt OP just before He passed. I've never fired a "Skeeter load" in it since.
    However I've shot a bunch of those 6.0gr Unique loads in a .357, but underneath the #358429.
    But only in Heavy Frame Revolvers.
    NM Blackhawks, M27's, Python, and a Security-Six 6"bbl.
    Dad said the Unique#358429 load was cheaper; more the twice the # of loads per pound and no gascheck. Sorta offset by the somewhat by the heavier bullet.
    I HATE auto-correct

    Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.

    My Experience and My Opinion, are just that, Mine.

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  5. #45
    Boolit Buddy
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    I'm still waiting for USPS to graciously deliver my group buy 4 cavity 358156 mold. So to pass the time Iast weekend I loaded up some 140gr sjwc with 15.5gr of 2400 and it was a blast, literally lol. I'm looking forward to having one bullet, primer and powder for my specials, magnums and 77/357.

    BTW, my last three mold purchases were directly attributed to this thread. Thanks Again!!
    Cargo

  6. #46
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    Larry, have you ever pressure tested the Speer 38spl +P 135gr GDHP? I wonder how much above standard pressure it is..........
    JMHO-YMMV
    dd884
    gary@2texastrucks.com
    Gary D. Peek

  7. #47
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    I will say that I have and still do use " skeeters load " with much satisfaction . I have never down loaded it from the original 13.5 grs of 2400 . It worked so well I saw no reason to change . I shoot them out of 357's , either my Colt OM trooper or my 681 . I have never found the recoil abusive at all . I have the 358156 bullet in 2 / 4 cavity molds from Tom @ Accurate molds , both plain based . I like it that much to buy 2 , 4 cavity molds to speed things up . In fact today I cast several hundred more . That is my most used design in 357 and 38 specials . It is very accurate . I size to 358 and lube with Verals' " soft " blue lube . Regards Paul

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddixie884 View Post
    Larry, have you ever pressure tested the Speer 38spl +P 135gr GDHP? I wonder how much above standard pressure it is..........
    No, only a few selected reloads with the 135 GD bullet using Bullseye and one load of Unique.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  9. #49
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    Do you have that data handy? I would be interested in some reload data on this bullet......
    JMHO-YMMV
    dd884
    gary@2texastrucks.com
    Gary D. Peek

  10. #50
    Boolit Grand Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Thanks Larry for the work and the post. Many will benefit from from it.

    In the 50s and 60s there were some pretty giddy 357 Mag/2400 loads written about and even included in loading books. It did not take many of these high velocity, loud mouthed, fire balls to teach me I didn't really needs such loads. But 1965, I had backed off to 13.5 grains of 2400 under the aforementioned Thompson GC bullet in 357 Mag. cases. I never loaded any "Skeeter" mag loads in 38 Special cases.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddixie884 View Post
    Do you have that data handy? I would be interested in some reload data on this bullet......
    Weather cooled off a bit, finally, so I was able to test the Speer 135 gr Gold Dot bullets in the 38 SPL for you. Test firearm was the Contender with 7.94” 357 magnum barrel as used in previous tests with the Oehler m43 PBL. As per your request I used Winchester W-W cases with WSP primers. The loads tested were 4.1, 4.4, 4.7 and 5 gr Bullseye. 5.8 gr of Unique was also tested as it was a max load listed. The oal was 1.445”. All charges were weight verified and thrown with a Lyman 55 Powder measure. Velocities are at the muzzle. All test strings were 10 shots.

    Prior to testing the GDs I ran a 10 shot test of Remington 125 gr JHP +P as a “control”;

    They ran 1139 fps, SD 18 fps, ES 56 fps, psi 15,100, 1.9” group [I never was overly impressed with the ballistics of that load but it was accurate]

    The 4.1 gr Bullseye load ran 785 fps, SD 16 fps, ES 54 fps, psi 14,800

    The 4.4 gr Bullseye load ran 849 fps, SD 13 fps, ES 41 fps, psi 16,400

    The 4.7 gr Bullseye load ran 905 fps, SD 16 fps, ES 54 fps, psi 18,400

    The 5.0 gr Bullseye load ran 1010 fps, SD 16 fps, ES 45 fps, psi 21,000

    The 5.8 gr load of Unique ran 970 fps, SD 24 fps, ES 80 fps, psi 18,300

    I was not overly impressed with the accuracy of any of the loads. Groups with the GDs ran 4 – 6” at 50 yards. After completing the GD tests I shot another test string with the Remington 125 JHPs. That group was 2.1” so nothing had loosened up on the test Contender…..or me…..

    Larry

    I plan on pushing the Unique load up to 21,500 psi which is the SAAMI MPSM for the 38 SPL +P. Just haven't gotten around to it yet. Green Dot and Blue dot are also good possibilities to test.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Char-Gar View Post
    Thanks Larry for the work and the post. Many will benefit from from it.

    In the 50s and 60s there were some pretty giddy 357 Mag/2400 loads written about and even included in loading books. It did not take many of these high velocity, loud mouthed, fire balls to teach me I didn't really needs such loads. But 1965, I had backed off to 13.5 grains of 2400 under the aforementioned Thompson GC bullet in 357 Mag. cases. I never loaded any "Skeeter" mag loads in 38 Special cases.
    Back in the day when i tried out Skeeter's 358156/38 SPL cases/2400 load I also found 13.5 gr 2400 to bark and snort a bit too much in my Colt Trooper and Ruger BH for my liking. I backed off to 12.5 gr and found that to be a very good load, which is what I would use today in 38 SPL cases if I needed to. Don't need to as I've accumulated sufficient 357 Magnum cases for use with the 358156 seated and crimped in the 1st crimp groove over 14 gr Alliant 2400. Runs 1350+ fps out of my Ruger SS at just under the SAAMI MAP. It is my standard magnum load.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  13. #53
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    Thanx for sharing Larry. I'm surprised at how little pressure the 125gr +P factory loads gave. "+P at 15,100psi" I guess that shows what your ammo dollar will buy.........

    I must admit that a lot of my put back ammo is 125gr +P .38spl in WW and Rem-Umc loads purchased from WM back in the day. I'm better off today than I would be with the nickels and dimes I paid for them..........
    Last edited by ddixie884; 05-04-2021 at 12:15 AM.
    JMHO-YMMV
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  14. #54
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    I have some Speer 135gr GDHPSB loaded on top of 7.5gr VV 3N37

    This is 1/10 gr above published data for 140gr jhp in the VV European CIP data tables.

    Hoptob on the S&W forum chronoed this load from a 2 1/4'' SP101 at ave 1011fps, sd24, es59
    .
    From a 1 7/8'' S&W M442 it gave ave 998fps, sd6, es12.

    Cip is 23,200psi and the VV data maxes out at 22,400 in this data table.
    JMHO-YMMV
    dd884
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    Gary D. Peek

  15. #55
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    Good info, thank you Larry. FWIW, I also stopped at 12.5 gr of 2400 with the 38 cases and 357156.

  16. #56
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    [QUOTE=Larry Gibson;5167043]

    Prior to testing the GDs I ran a 10 shot test of Remington 125 gr JHP +P as a “control”;

    They ran 1139 fps, SD 18 fps, ES 56 fps, psi 15,100, 1.9” group [I never was overly impressed with the ballistics of that load but it was accurate]

    How can Remington, in good conscience, sell ammo giving 15,100psi as +P?
    JMHO-YMMV
    dd884
    gary@2texastrucks.com
    Gary D. Peek

  17. #57
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    I have a Rossi 92 that is tight chambered and shoots the 38 case with 358156 second groove and 13.5 gr like it was made just for it. Nice to know what the pressures are. They are carefully marked Rifle only.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  18. #58
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    What makes us think Remington would have a conscience.?...

    Remington loads its ammunition to +/- velocity standard while keeping the MAP under the SAAMI established MAP for the cartridge. Truth be told, few factory loads approach the SAAMI MAP.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  19. #59
    Moderator Emeritus robertbank's Avatar
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    This thread and others got me interested in dong my own testing. I have a limited supply of .357mag brass and a lifetime supply of 38spl brass. I have the Lyman 358156 mold in both HP and FP versions.

    Here are the results of my testing using my Ruger GP-100 4.2" and my Remlin 38spl/357mag 20" Carbine.

    Ruger GP-100 4.2"

    38spl Brass
    6gr. Unique
    OAL 1.590"
    Avg Vel 999 fps
    SD 15

    .357 Brass
    6gr Unique
    OAL 1.590
    Avg Vel 1,044 fps
    SD 17

    Remlin 38spl/357 Mag 20" Carbine

    38spl Case
    6gr Unique
    OAL 1.590
    Avg Vel 1,245 fps
    SD 14

    .357 Case
    6gr Unique
    OAL 1.590
    Avg Vel 1,363
    SD 17

    Results were, for all practical purposes identical using the different brass. Brass in both firearms were mixed as to headstamp. Thanks to the late Sheriff Skeeter Skelton I have a source for loading 357 loads using 38spl brass using the appropriate crimping groove for thr 358156 bullet. Both run smoothly through my carbine. All loads were shot over my Chrony at approx. 7 yards.

    Take Care

    Bob
    Its been months since I bought the book, "How to scam people online". It still has not arrived yet!

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  20. #60
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    Interesting that you gained 45 f/s velocity by switching to the longer .357 cases.
    For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
    He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind: and the fool become servant to the wise of heart. Proverbs 11:29
    ...Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Matthew 25:40


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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check