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Thread: Oh no !!! First PPb Shots Fired !!!

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy Distant Thunder's Avatar
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    JKR,

    Your groups are not bad at all. Most shooters and rifles/loads are 2 MOA or about 4.2" at 200 yards and you are close to that. Getting that down to 3" at 200 yards and 10 shots just requires working at it and/or getting better (more consistent) at casting and loading BP, refining your process. Every fraction of an inch under 3" becomes harder and harder and it takes time and effort, lots of trigger time. For me the process from start to finish is something I enjoy immensely. Whether is the casting or filling the cases or patching the bullets, I like it all. Having the desire to improve on my past efforts has kept me going for many years as a competitive shooter and I don't see my interest fading any. It's a great sport. Enjoy the journey.
    Jim Kluskens
    aka Distant Thunder

    Black powder paper patching is a journey, enjoy the ride!

  2. #22
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    JKR.

    Jim has given you some very good advice and I basically do the same as Jim.
    Something Jim has not mentioned yet and that is case prep. When you really want to get the most you have to spend time with the rifle and working up what I call ladder loads as well as getting the brass uniform. Like inside volume and case neck wall identical so you get a consistent bullet release holding the potential verticals down and casting a well balanced bullet matching the rifle twist.
    Casting a good bullet you can get several different weights from the same batch of alloy and cast from the same session. If you have a pile of light and some heavy with different weights between. Just because you have several between the light and heavy that just don't make them the best in the casting session. The heavy flawless bullet will be the one that has no dross in then and they will be the well balanced.
    Spend time with the rifle testing loads. Both are good for you getting time behind the buttplate.

    These black powder rifles have good potential for accuracy. The targets below are the best I have shot and I will say that I cant do this every time out and those are only 5 shot groups but that is what these rifles can do when you spend time working them.
    I cant even get my .308 to shoot like this all the time.
    Kurt

    Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy FarNorth45's Avatar
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    Distance Thunder , Lead Pot and everyone else i may have missed ... I really appericate all the great advice !! I will put all this information to use , trust me on that , Jim many thanks for them long write ups full of knowledge that took a lot of time to write up !!
    Kurt you have also gaven me great advice in the past and present. I do spend a lot of time on brass prep , it's just in my Dna ha!ha ..... and Kurt that is some mighty fine shooting !!! I'll get there , i wont stop trying until i do !!!!
    I will put all this advice into play this week and post my homework grades this weekend after shooting lol!
    I too love the challenge of bettering my skills . I lay awake and dream all night about things that challenge me until i can figure them out ...... it's both , a good thing and a curse altogether !!!
    I will probably only get to shoot Sunday , Saturday i really need to make a powder run hopefully..... and that is over a 320mile round trip through the mountains ...... about 6-7 hrs lol

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy FarNorth45's Avatar
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    I also weigh every bullet casted and sort to within 1gr ..... my casting has also improved because of this i think , its seems now that the majority of them all fall within 1gr ...... but i also watch and inspect each bullet , if any edge is even slightly rounded it goes right back into the pot . I also started using a stopwatch a lot with a lap counter , it helps me stay very consistent and also keeps tack of bullets casted ha!ha

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy FarNorth45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunlaker View Post
    I used to buy my 0.060" LDPE wads pre-cut from Buffalo Arms, but now, for my paper patch loads I cut them myself on a Fred Cornell press mounted wad punch. I do get the 0.060" LDPE sheets from Buffalo Arms, but you can get them in lots of places.

    Chris.
    Thanks , i will get me some ordered .... right now i am just using a wad punch i made , but i have been eyeballing them press mounted ones ..... they look pretty snazzy!!!

  6. #26
    Boolit Man
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    Far North,
    How much range do you have out of your window? My window is pinched between my loading bench and wood stove. I need to build a rifle bench like yours but it will be a tight fit.
    Jim,
    Thank you for the information and the tip on the book. I see Track of the Wolf has it in stock. I’ll order it.
    Lead Pot,
    I’m impressed and inspired that you can shoot groups like that with pp bullets. My 5 shot groups with grease groove bullets start out looking like that but usually end up with one shot out that opens up the group. However, I may be at the limit of what I can do with iron sights.
    Do you guys think that good groups at one and two hundred yards are a good indicator for mid and long range performance? In highpower we always tested long range ammo at least at three hundred. I have a 200 yd range here at my home but it’s not so good for winter shooting. That and my hips are complaining when I get near a pair of snowshoes!
    JKR

  7. #27
    Boolit Buddy Distant Thunder's Avatar
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    FarNorth,

    It sounds like you've got your casting down pretty good. For match shooting I've been told you need to keep your bullets +/-.5 grains, but I have done well with +/- 1 grains. I visually inspect each bullet as they fall from the mold, if there is anything irregular about the base when I push the spur plate aside it gets tossed back into the pot. That might be the edge being rounded or a void or something else I don't like the looks of. I look at the bullet as I roll it toward the others to inspect the side, same thing, if any thing does not look right it is tossed.

    After casting I weigh each bullet and separate into 1 grain groups. I keep the ones that are toward the high and fall in the total spread of 2 grains. Say I'm casting at 528 grains for the high end. There will be a few that are 529 and those go back. There will be a group that are 527 and those are good but I keep separate from the 528 group. Anything below 527 goes back to the pot. My rejection rate from weighing is usually no more than 5-8%. Each bullet is visually inspected again when it is weighed. Something very minor that still makes weigh I keep, but I mark it with an "S" for sighter. Those I use for the first few sighters at the start of each relay and the last couple of sighters are good bullets. It somewhat depends on the number of sighters allowed.

    Each bullet gets one last visual inspection when it is patched just before seating. I make the final decision on what is shot for score and what is a sighter at that point and if I missed something I don't like in the previous inspections I may just toss it back in the pot.

    I have been at matches when on the last day I have had to sort through my ammo deciding what to shoot at what distance and have had to mix some 527 grain bullets in with some 528 grain bullets and even a few mark with an "S" to have enough bullet to shoot for score the whole day. The "S" bullets go right in there with the 528 grain bullets as do the 527 grain! I just feel better starting a match with bullets I have confidence in. All the bullets I cast and load, the heavy ones, the light ones and even the sighters, are capable of winning the match so the real weight of the outcome falls on me. I'm just like anyone else I have good days, better days and some days that I don't like to talk about. Those last kind of days are never because my bullets let me down, they are because I made some bad or unlucky choices while I was shooting. Sometimes at a match you have only a few seconds to decide how much to turn the knobs or if you should even turn them and then get in the rifle and break a good shot before your time runs out. I have made my last shot in a relay with only a handful of seconds left on the clock.

    I used to just crumble when I was in that situation, but over time I learned to deal with it better by focusing completely on that next shot and nothing else. You can sometimes win or lose on that one shot. Good matches are often very close at the top. After the match I analyze the heck out the good and bad choices I made and I try to build a thought process that will enable me to make better choices in those remaining few seconds of a relay and through the entire match really. It's something like muscle memory, but it's between your ears. I have done much better when I go to a match mentally prepared and I find I have a lot of time to think while I'm driving to a match. You can spend a lot of time making good ammo, but if you don't make good choices it won't matter much. I learn from my good choices, but I learn a lot from my bad choices too. To do the best you can you have to shoot and that to me means shoot in match conditions and do it a lot. Lick your wounds, learn from your mistakes and go again.

    If you're shooting 2 MOA at 200 yards you're ready to start shooting in matches. At matches, both from shooting and talking to those who shoot well, you will learn more than you will sitting at your loading bench. Go to a match!

    Sorry for the long posts, just skip over them if you like.
    Jim Kluskens
    aka Distant Thunder

    Black powder paper patching is a journey, enjoy the ride!

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy FarNorth45's Avatar
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    JKR,
    Right now i only have 150yrds , but come summer time i will take out some more trees and join it onto my 300yrd range ..... who knows i may get a wild hair and try this winter . But our gun club here has a 1000 yard range with a heated building, so i may not lol .
    Distant Thunder,
    Are kidding , i read and soak up all the information you put out here !!!! Only a fool would skip over it !
    I don't have cable , or even local channels for over 7 years now and i love it !!
    I got rid of all my Social Media crap a couple years ago..... like Facebook and i don't miss it one little bit !!!
    It leaves me more time to hone skills and learn new things in life ....... not to mention a happier , less stressed person in general !!! I love bettering myself, learning how and why things work the way they do . I guess thats why i become a Mechanic for a living lol

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy FarNorth45's Avatar
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    JKR ,
    This is my 300 yrd range and it starts right beside my reloading shop .... i just need to take out a few more trees . The pistol range is in the middle of it and accessible from my front yard . I also need to build a covering for it , always something to do lolClick image for larger version. 

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  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    Wow! That's a nice setup.

    Chris.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    They say jealousy is a sin and after looking at your range I feel very sinful!

  12. #32
    Boolit Buddy FarNorth45's Avatar
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    Thanks Guys ,
    My Wife , Son and I put a lot of work in on building it . We all love to shoot , it's took us many years to get to this point in our lives and we feel very blessed . I've always wanted a place where i could step out the door and have my own range ...... this time around we were lucky and made some right choices for once ha!ha

  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy Distant Thunder's Avatar
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    Well done, FarNorth! Good for you!

    My range looks pretty much the same but is limited to 220 yards (200 meters) and is all I have for load development. My testing at long range has always been done at matches where I quickly found out what works and what doesn't. The local club range is only 100 yards and most here think that IS long range! I would have to move elsewhere if I couldn't walk out my back door and shoot.
    Jim Kluskens
    aka Distant Thunder

    Black powder paper patching is a journey, enjoy the ride!

  14. #34
    Boolit Man
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    Seriously nice range set up you have there Far North. You’ve got me thinking I should make some improvements on mine. I had built a 300 yard range when I shot HP. I quit using it in 2002. Since then it’s grown up with alders. Amazing how fast that happens.
    JKR

  15. #35
    Boolit Buddy FarNorth45's Avatar
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    Thanks Distant Thunder,
    Thats seems to always be the case , most people think 100yrds is long range ...... but suddenly when they go hunting it turns into 527 yards and their bullet didn't even drop ha!ha


    Thanks Jkr , and you need to get started cleaning that range ha!ha ..... it's funny up here , growing season is very short ..... but in the summer , with midnight sunlight things grow really fast!! It's like they are double timing to get caught up.


    I called today to check on powder before i drive 160 miles one way to get it ...... Turns out they dont have any , said they had to find a new supplier and it would be a minimum of 2 weeks . I only got 4 pounds of goex 2f remaining. I do still have 5 pounds of 3f if i had to , but i will just need to conserve and hope they do get some .
    I have checked on getting it from Buffalo arms , they state that they now have shipping to Alaska and what that really means is that they will ship it to the Marine Lines in Seattle and then you have to pay the Marine lines haz mat to Alaska..... that isn't cheap lol

  16. #36
    Boolit Man
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    After leaving HP rifle competition I went into Precision Pistol ( Bullseye Pistol). I could practice and compete for a whole season on an eight pounder of Bullseye powder. I’m just starting to get a handle on how much powder it takes to run these big BP cartridges. I’ve just ordered powder from BACO. It was supposed to arrive yesterday but tracking shows it somewhere in Nebraska. While waiting I found a old can of 2F that I used for muzzle loaders. I loaded some up and shot two of the best groups I’ve ever shot! Hmmmm!
    JKR

  17. #37
    Boolit Master semtav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKR View Post
    After leaving HP rifle competition I went into Precision Pistol ( Bullseye Pistol). I could practice and compete for a whole season on an eight pounder of Bullseye powder. I’m just starting to get a handle on how much powder it takes to run these big BP cartridges. I’ve just ordered powder from BACO. It was supposed to arrive yesterday but tracking shows it somewhere in Nebraska. While waiting I found a old can of 2F that I used for muzzle loaders. I loaded some up and shot two of the best groups I’ve ever shot! Hmmmm!
    JKR
    I'd invite you to that other forum to shoot a few , but I'm not sure we could handle 2 northern Wisconsiners !!

  18. #38
    Boolit Man
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    Semtav,
    I’ve been waiting for approval of my registration since November. Is that normal there? I would’ve liked to shoot in your postal!
    JKR

  19. #39
    Boolit Master semtav's Avatar
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    I would call Lucinda at Shiloh personally.
    In the meantime you could just email me your targets and will post them

    Sent from my E6910 using Tapatalk

  20. #40
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by semtav View Post
    I would call Lucinda at Shiloh personally.
    In the meantime you could just email me your targets and will post them

    Sent from my E6910 using Tapatalk
    Thanks for the offer. I’ll get one shot this week.
    I’ve sent Lucinda an email.
    JKR

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check