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Thread: Powder choice

  1. #1
    Boolit Man
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    Powder choice

    I just loaded out the last of my stash of GOEX Cartridge so it’s time to order powder.
    Is Swiss worth the extra bucks compared to Olde E?
    JKR

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    I have no experience with any Swiss Black Powder. I have used standard GOEX in 2fg & 3fg granulations. A few years ago I had my LGS order me some Old Eynsford in 2fg & 3fg granulations.
    45 Colt cartridges were handloaded with standard and magnum LP primers with my home cast 250 gr. bullets and chronographed. The results with Old Eynsford were amazing in both increased velocity production and in the decrease of fouling produced.
    If Swiss should become available my area I would purchase it so I could do a comparison.
    From what I’ve read on Internet forums it seem Old E. & Swiss are comparable in performance.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    OE gives more velocity and less fouling than Swiss, everything else being equal.

  4. #4
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpsguy View Post
    OE gives more velocity and less fouling than Swiss, everything else being equal.
    What granulation would be best for 45-70? Things ran pretty well with 1 1/2 Swiss.
    JKR

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Keep life simple go with the OE 1 1/2 and load it just like you did the Cartridge. You will probably see more velocity and way less fouling , but the accuracy will be the same or a little better.
    I have some rifles that will shoot Swiss well, but not enough better to justify the expense, and a couple that will spray and pray with Swiss, but shoot nice tight groups with OE.
    But you may want to try a comparison between the 2 brands for yourself, and dollars to donuts, you'll be getting pm's, emails , and peer pressure from folks that Swiss is the only way to go..
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I'm one of those people that still likes Swiss more than OE. But OE is a good quality powder and it's very likely that you'll get good results with it.

    Chris.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    I use both Swiss and OE. By average I give the edge to OE. The fouling control with OE is easier than Swiss.
    I cant tell you the difference between the two what the velocity is, I don't pay attention to that. I look at the holes through the paper testing loads and bullet designs on what they do down range.
    One of the most overlooked powder that went to the way side was the KIK powder.
    I just started a new lot of Swiss and going through some ladder load testing and solar it is showing some better performance over the last lot but the jury is still out between it and the OE.
    I use 1 F, 1.5F, 2F and 3F OE and 1.5 and 2F Swiss and get good results with the different calibers I use. Except for this last season I go through 4 -5 cases a year shooting matches and just range time, this last season I'm just in the second case because of this Chines bug putting a damper on matches.

    Get a couple cans of each brands and granulations and do your own testing to see what works for you.
    As far as hand guns. The distances they are shot at, 2F or 3F I don't think you will see any difference with accuracy but you will with the fouling.
    By the way, I use 3F OE in my .45 gold cup and it works just as well as bullseye in it

  8. #8
    Boolit Man
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    And I thought Bullseye was dirty in the 1911!!
    I should soon have a Winchester highwall back from the gunsmith. I’m having it relined and chambered for 38-55. Is 1 1/2 F a good place to start with this cartridge?
    JKR
    Last edited by JKR; 01-03-2021 at 01:43 PM.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    You can order a mix of powders from Powder Inc. and make up your own mind. If you get the Swiss cavier powder remember you do not want to crush it as that defeats the purpose of the perfect round balls. I often shoot with a guy who only shoots Pyrodex and does well. Never shot 38-55 but know a couple people shooting Swiss in 38-50.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKR View Post
    And I thought Bullseye was dirty in the 1911!!

    JKR
    It is but it works

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I have shot swiss and Olde Ensforde both in my rifles, The 45-70s do as well with either one. I use 1 1/2 OE in the 45s and 40. fouling is manageable and controlled easily. Experiment with compression with it. I dont think swiss is enough better to justify the added cost over OE. It meters well with dippers or measure also. With the load for your rifle you can get single digit extreme spreads or very close to it. I think it performs best under the heavier bullets also.

  12. #12
    Boolit Man
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    You know with all the money a person spends on this sport - like rifles, trucks, gas, bullets, casting equipment, primers etc, not to mention one's time, the few bucks more it cost to buy the best powder seems to me to be insignificant when compared to the other costs.

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by 38-72 View Post
    You know with all the money a person spends on this sport - like rifles, trucks, gas, bullets, casting equipment, primers etc, not to mention one's time, the few bucks more it cost to buy the best powder seems to me to be insignificant when compared to the other costs.
    You hear this a lot, but there's quite a difference between spending money on equipment and spending money on consumables. Some talk like there's hypocrisy in spending a lot of money on guns and trying to pinch money on ammo. Well, you keep the rifle after you pull the trigger. If the cheap consumables work they work and are gone shortly regardless.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
    You hear this a lot, but there's quite a difference between spending money on equipment and spending money on consumables. Some talk like there's hypocrisy in spending a lot of money on guns and trying to pinch money on ammo. Well, you keep the rifle after you pull the trigger. If the cheap consumables work they work and are gone shortly regardless.
    Exactly and if in this instance Swiss shoots no better if at all, and maybe worse, then why spend the extra 100 bucks a case? And if it doesn't shoot any better and maybe worse is it really the "best" powder?
    Boils down to a person needs to try different powders, see what works the best for them and go from there.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 38-72 View Post
    You know with all the money a person spends on this sport - like rifles, trucks, gas, bullets, casting equipment, primers etc, not to mention one's time, the few bucks more it cost to buy the best powder seems to me to be insignificant when compared to the other costs.
    Yup assuming you know what is the best powder ,and thats no longer the case/Ed

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Since you shot high power Im guessing that you have a chrony. Be sure you set up a little distance out due to lube your slinging and wad or your chrony will take a beating. If you can get a copy of winter 2020 Black Powder Cartridge magazine there is an article by Rick Moritz that would help you alot. Rick is a top Master shooter whether he is shooting his 38-50 or long range Creedmoor.

  17. #17
    Boolit Man
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    Don,
    I took your advice and ordered ten pounds of OE 1 1/2. I’ll see how it goes with the that. I have a little Swiss to play with also. I’ll be able to compare. The Swiss groups well for me but I was surprised to find that it grouped 6 points lower than the Cartridge at 115 yards.
    JKR

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    JKR when I shot cartridge in the 45-70's I loaded 69 grains and a .030 fiber wad, and a 530-535 gr bullet, with the OE 1/12 same charge weight wad and seating depth.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 38-72 View Post
    You know with all the money a person spends on this sport - like rifles, trucks, gas, bullets, casting equipment, primers etc, not to mention one's time, the few bucks more it cost to buy the best powder seems to me to be insignificant when compared to the other costs.
    Thats assuming the most expensive powder is the best ...............taint necessarily so.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Purely my experience with Swiss in two double rifles. Neither one shot it worth spit....which really surprised and disappointed me. Both were still too slow to regulate with correct weight bullets and individual barrel accuracy was not very good either. Doubles are different beasts from single barrel rifles but usually if a load is accurate individual barrels will shoot good groups. That isn't to indict Swiss, just that those two rifles didn't like it. One rifle didn't like OE either while the other did as well with OE as with its usual duplex load.

    As others have mentioned, you can't know until you try.
    "In general, the art of government is to take as much money as possible from one class of citizens and give it to another class of citizens" Voltaire'

    The common virtue of capitalism is the sharing of equal opportunity. The common vice of socialism is the equal sharing of misery

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check