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Thread: Boolit Sizing Test in 308 Win

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

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    Boolit Sizing Test in 308 Win

    There was a recent thread, concerning the use of the Lee 7.62X39 mold (CTL 312-160-2R) mold in a 308 Winchester rifle. I have been testing that mold, in a 308 Win, at two boolit diameters. After firing 40 rounds, which generated two 10-shot groups for each boolit at 100 yards, I am not sure if there is a clear boolit diameter winner. But I am leaning to the 0.309 diameter boolit being more consistent. Would like to hear comments and suggestions. https://imgur.com/hnoDbG7

    Barrel Preparation
    The barrel had been shot with cast boolits prior to this test. It was dry scrubbed with Chore-Boy to remove any lead and then a dry patch was used. No chemical/solvent cleaning. Prior to the test, six rounds were fired to season the bore, if it was necessary.

    Case Preparation
    All cases, which are a mixture, had been previous trimmed to a minimum length. Since the cases had been previously fired in this rifle, the cases were neck sized, the length of the neck, only. The Lee neck expander plug has been turned from any oversize expander down to 0.311”. Looks like the brass springs back to 0.308”-0.309” internal diameter.

    Boolit Preparation
    The Lee 7.62X39 mold (CTL 312-160-2R) drops a boolit around 0.313” diameter. Previously cast boolits were sorted by weight. For this test, the sorted weights of 167.0 grains to 167.9 grains was used. A Hornady gas check was ultimately added to each boolit at the time of sizing. Boolits were run through 0.309” and 0.311” diameter sizing dies with the gas checks being attached. The boolits were then tumble lubed with the Lee Tumble Lube. No boolit culling was done. Boolits were fired as casted. May have been a mistake.

    Round Preparation
    Each round was charged with 16.0 grains of 2400. Rounds using 0.311” diameter boolits and 0.309” diameter boolits were assembled with the gas checks seated to the bottom of the neck. It was found that the chambered rounds may be pushing the gas checks below the bottom of the case neck. It is hard to tell if the gas checks are completely clear of the case neck. It was determined the COL of rounds loaded with 0.311” diameter boolits was 2.677” and 0.309” diameter boolits was 2.691”. These rounds have the boolits engaging the lands in both cases. It was found that the 0.309” diameter boolits could almost be seated using heavy finger pressure. Surely no swaging when these boolits are seated. A very light crimp was applied to each round in order to ensure the case mouth would enter the chamber easily and hold the boolits at the desired seating depth.

    Boolits Tests
    The boolits were group tested at a range of 100 yards. Two tests were performed on both boolit diameters. Each boolit test consisted of 10 rounds of each boolit diameter. The two boolit diameter rounds were fired in a round-robin manner to account for any barrel fouling during the test. Photo of the targets is attached.
    Last edited by Pirate69; 12-22-2020 at 09:49 AM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
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    No pics.
    Paper targets aren't your friends. They won't lie for you and they don't care if your feelings get hurt.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    I barreled a Krag action with a Shilen 12”x.308” barrel and chambered it for .30-40 Krag. Tested gas-check boolits in the 150-200gr range with my standard load of 21gr of SR-4759. I sized and lubed them at 0.313”, then would size them to 0.312”, 0.311”, 0.310”, and finally 0.308”. Sizing incrementally in this way, with the boolit fully lubed, induces no distortion, crushing of lube grooves, bending of noses or finning that I can see. The alloy is the typical Lino/wheelweight range scrap, not heat-treated.

    With the boolits weighed in groups, the closest shooting in my barrel is always obtained with the boolits sized down to 0.308”. I don’t even have to use an “M” die. Tried to get around the extra sizing work several times, but the 0.308” always comes out ahead. I shoot the gun off the bench at the 500-M ram swingers at the club range, and the highest percentage of hits is always the 0.308” boolit.

    It may be just this one barrel being a prima donna, but against all conventional wisdom, that’s the way it is. Your .308 has about the same capacity as the .30-40, so hopefully my data may be of use to you. Would be interesting to see how (or if) it checks out.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    Is this link not working?

    https://imgur.com/hnoDbG7

  5. #5
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    More 2400 will tighten you up. 18-19 grains always give the best performance for me no matter how extensive my ladder development is. What alloy?
    You never know how you rank amongst men 'til you have seen what will break another man.
    The original "Bluejay" US Army/ US Navy 1945-1970.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluejay75 View Post
    More 2400 will tighten you up. 18-19 grains always give the best performance for me no matter how extensive my ladder development is. What alloy?
    According to the Lee Hardness Indicator, the alloy is about 14 BHN. Looks like I will be doing this test again with a higher charge of 2400.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    I've had best results in .308 with the .312-155-2R. The 312-165-2R works better in my Krag. Sized .310, YMMV depending upon your gun.

    My Krag like to have the boolet nose engraved a bit, but my R-77 .308 seems to like the bore riders.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    Well, I have made some progress. This is the last 14 rounds that I had loaded. 13 rounds are semi-respectable. The flyer tells me that I am not totally in control yet.



    https://i.imgur.com/7OUrCDs.jpg

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate69 View Post
    Well, I have made some progress. This is the last 14 rounds that I had loaded. 13 rounds are semi-respectable. The flyer tells me that I am not totally in control yet.
    YOU might try 19-20 gr,2400 my .308 likes them better them a little faster. Also try 4198 (24-27 gr) and H-322 (~30-32 gr). If you're flush get a Lee 312-155-2R mold, and or a 309-200R mold. These seem to work well in my 1:10 20" R77. None of these loads are very high pressured. Well under Lyman's maximums.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master



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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate69 View Post
    Well, I have made some progress. This is the last 14 rounds that I had loaded. 13 rounds are semi-respectable. The flyer tells me that I am not totally in control yet.




    https://i.imgur.com/7OUrCDs.jpg
    I will postulate that the flyers may be a result of either a particle of suspended "Trash" in the cast boolit; or an air void. I find that when I cast small lots of bolts with great attention to detail (fluxing/dross skimming/etc..) AND slow casting speed with an eye towards ensuring a constant temperature for the pot (easier with slow casting volume) translates into much better groups. If I am casting for Volume with less focus on these areas; then I see more flyers like you are experiencing in your pics.

    Just my experience with my own efforts.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Pirate,

    Most of my .30 and .308 caliber arms like my boolits sized .309". I cast the Lyman 311467, the 185 grain spitzer and the Lee .312 185 RN. A quick test is to try a sized cast boolit into the muzzle of a rifle. If it goes more than half way, size it a bit larger.

    Adam

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    Thanks for the recent posts everyone. Just getting back to this thread.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    I usually end up with .310 in my .308's other .30's. Just a little better than the.309's in MY rifles. Both are USUALLY better than .311. You might neck anneal cases, maybe sort by case weight or headstamp just for consistency. An incremental test from 16-20 grains, maybe 2 each in half grain steps, see what groups together. This does work best at 200 yards but usually you can tell the clustering at 100.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    I gave up on .309" bullets a long time ago in all .30 calibers including .30-40, .308, and .30-06, two rifles in each chambering. I use a ww alloy and approximately a Lyman #2 mix. I run bullets through a .311" SAECO die; they come out just under .311" and shoot best, though the accuracy difference between them and .310" bullets is very slight.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    I my 308w:

    Lee 312-160 tl bullet pc'd and sized to .310" then tumble lubed with 45/45/10

    18.7gr of 2400 in mixed nato cases 1" 10-shot group @ 100yds.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Same bullet this time pc'd and sized to .310" no tumble lube just over 1 1/2" 10-shot group @ 100yds/2679fps
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Tried .308" & .309" bullets and they didn't do anything for accuracy but made it harder to size the as cast .313"/14bhn bullets down. The shilen bbl I'm using has a .340" neck and I have a hard time chambering .311" bullets. I do turn the necks down on the cases but only enough to take the high spots off.

    Something to think about:
    It's good to measure the diameter of the neck of a fired case. Then measure the thickness of the brass and subtract the thickness (2x) from the diameter of the case to find the "max" bullet diameter you can use in your chamber. It's a good thing to have at least 1/1000th's of bullet release.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    Are you gas checking the Lee 312-160 boolits?

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    yes with home made al gc's

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