First try "smelting" scrap bullets. Did not go great. Any suggestions?

[jwb28]

Hi new guy here.
Decided to try casting my own bullets. Got a hold of maybe 80lbs of dug out bullets. A single burner King Cooker and a 1.5 qt cast iron pot from good will.
The pot would not fit on the three "legs" very well so, I got a steel plate maybe 9" across made by Camp More. It's got holes drilled in it, supposed to spread the heat over a larger area. I just needed it to span the gap, so the pot would be stable. Filled the pot with scrap bullets and an hour later had maybe 1" of melted lead in the bottom.

I scraped out the bullets that were not melted and tried to clean up the melt. Couple of questions.
1. How long should it take to melt a 1.5 qt pan of scrap bullets? Did I give up to soon?
2. I stirred the pot, added wax, skimmed off the dirt and dross. did it 3 times and still had "dirt" coming up. Looked like fine brown dust almost. How clean is clean?

Thanks for any help.

[huntnman]

Sounds like your burner might not produce enough heat. When melting lead the first 1" always takes longer. You have to get every thing up to melt temp. Skim and flux once all is melted. There is a lot of dirt in range scrap.

[bpatterson84]

Sounds like that steel plate is robbing you of your heat! Use what you've got to, but a turkey fryer or crawfish burner style sure works faster for your cast iron. That dust is coming off the bottom, corners and sides of the pot, it wont affect your bullets/ingots, get as much as you can out of there and ladle out the good lead. Stir the unmelted bullets into the liquid lead underneath, will help speed the process and get all the lead out of the jackets.

[bpatterson84]

Also, fluxing doesn't do much for the dirt, it puts the alloy back into suspension. The dirt isn't IN the lead, but around it. Its much too light to be mixed in the lead, and would just float, surface tension keeps it on the bottom and walls.

[SSGOldfart]

Be sure the range lead with jackets are dry,just one drop of water and your going to have a train wreck on your hands very bad deal. Btw welcome to the forum

[Mitch]

the extra thickness between your bot and the flame is not helping.But depending on ow much dirt you you have mixed in with the range lead it could take a while sounds to me you just got things going when you got an inch of melted lead in the bottom.But i am not looking at what you are melting just a guess.More dirt more time melting and cleaning.Look in the camping section at Walmart for a cast iron pot i think they are about 4 quart or so should fit better on your burner.If you plan on cleaning alot of lead look into a cut off grill propane tank.

Like i said you just got things hot enough whenyou got an inch of melted led in the bottom.I like to use sawdust before the wax.the saw dust weill remove the dirt and carp.you need to be about 700 deg for flux a small had full of sawdust will do.Stir the sawdust in all the time scraping the sides and bottom of the pot and letting the lead run thru the burnt sawdust.I use a ladel for this.Now when you scoop off the burnt sawdust look at it you will see other colers in there besides black butnt sawdust.This is the dirt and crap coming out of the lead.U susaly it take aboiut 3 times with the sawdust.each time you will see less crap in it when you scoop it off.then i use the wax for the final cleaning and getting the oxidation all mixed back into the mix.After a while you will see when it is clean.ver little or no crap comeing uo and you are done.

[huntnman]

1 Depends on the heat output (BTU) of your burner., probably .
A wind screen may help, you need to concentrate heat to the mass, stand, pot and contents. The first 1" ALWAYS takes the longest.
2 Skim and flux when melt is up to temp. top of metal should be shiny. There is a lot of dirt in range scrap.

[Mitch]

Welcome the forum and the madness of bullet casting. I just now saw this was your first post.

Here is some very good reading chapter 4 expalains what you are working on now.
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

[bpatterson84]

I also use sawdust while melting when I start seeing liquid. Turns to carbon and provides a buffer from atmospheric O2.

[farmbif]

ok 80lbs of stuff to melt down, but only 1 inch of melted alloy in a 1.5qt pan.
first thing I have done with range scrap is to sift it through a cullender or something like that , shake and sift to get as much dirt off the bullets as possible. don't know where you are but on a dry sunny day it helps a lot to dry out any possible moisture or put in oven on an old flat tray 350 for an hour ought to get any possible moisture out if your someplace where it is cold and wet in winter..

fill your smelting pot 1/2 to 3/4 full and put it on the heat till the lead gets melted out, if you can get a thermometer 720 degrees is a good pretty good temp to get your pot of alloy up to, a big slotted spoon from thrift store works well to get copper bullet jackets and other junk out of the pot. throw in a couple pea size chunks of bees wax and 6 or 7 tablespoons of dry sawdust and mix everything well, then use slotted spoon to remove everything g that is not melted alloy from top of mix.

[oldhenry]

I use the 1 burner King Cooker. Rather than a steel plate I use an appropriate size of expanded metal. I also have a wind screen to capture some heat (all 4 sides).

The piece of expanded metal would be cheap: in fact the welding shop gave it to me (it was scrap).

These 2 changes should get you smelting. Also: don't give up so soon. When you saw the 1" of melt things were about to get good.

Give it another try with these simple changes.

[Winger Ed.]

I'd use a windscreen too.
Bend some sheet metal around the base of the burner or stack cinder blocks around it.
It sounds like a lot of the heat is going around your melting pot instead of up & into it.

[jwb28]

Thanks for all the replies.
The King cooker looks like a lot of the pics from members here. Dale 53 and Snuffy had pics of the same basic burner. Not sure of the thread. I've been looking around here a lot. . Maybe the plate is slowing things down, but no way to use just the pot I tried without it. Way to easy to tip it over. I'll have to find something else that spans the gap for a pot. I was trying to keep cost down, but a D.O. will be big enough.
I tried to wash out as much dirt as I could with the range scrap. Did that over the summer, so lead is dry now. Just getting around to the smelting part. I think I had it clean if it just floats or stays on the bottom or sides. After skimming it was good unless I scraped the side or bottom. Then a little more would float up.
I just want to make sure I'm not going to get a bullet that scratch or ruin my guns barrel.
I have one of the new Lyman 358349 single cavity hp molds I really want to try. Always likes reading about EK's bullets. thought I'd finally try to make my own. Also have a Lee 6 cavity to try.

[Winger Ed.]

I just want to make sure I'm not going to get a bullets that scratch ruin my guns barrel.

Run your cleaning melt pretty hot when you're raking the trash off the top.
When you get to casting, then do the flux and plenty of stirring especially the sides & bottom of the pot.--
you can't stir it too much.

The remaining dirt & last bit of trash wants to float up where you can skim it off.

[jwb28]

The cooker came with a cheap thermometer temp slowly got to 700 degrees ~ and kind of stayed there. Had a little wind with gusts. Maybe that was part of it.
I'll get a better pot and maybe some kind of wind break and try again.
What is running my lead hot? around 850.?

[3006guns]

I tried a cast iron dutch oven, a stainless pot and finally settled on a steel Freon refrigeration tank cut in half. That did the trick! The Freon tank was just the right size, has thin but sturdy walls and transfers the heat to the lead fast. Just remember that a few inches of lead in there can weigh quite a bit!

[SweetMk]

There is an old saying,,, "A Watched Pot Never Boils"
Back when people cooked on wood stoves, water would not boil, unless there was a lid on the pot.
Hence, the saying,, if you can see the water, it will not boil, put the lid on.

The same for lead,, it will melt faster, if there is a lid.
Even a couple layers of aluminum foil folded, and shaped to cover the pot will greatly speed up melting.

Gotta keep in the heat that the pot has in it,,

[jwb28]

Thanks again everyone.

I'll try again next weekend. Life is crazy right now.

If I get it working right. Can I do 80 lbs poring into a 4 cavity lyman mold. I think it makes 1 lber's?

[Winger Ed.]

What is running my lead hot? around 850.?

I don't have a thermometer. I use the tried & true redneck method.

If stuff melts real fast-- except Zinc when you put it in, trash floats right up,
and the molten Lead is thin when ya stir it--- its hot enough.

[country gent]

If you can cut the center out of that plate so the feet fit on it with the hole thru it will help a lot. A wind screen around the pot with a lid, In a bind or a quick easy way is a bigger pot to set upside down over the melting pot here A steel pot will work just drill a hole in the center for a handle and 3-4 holes for vents to maintain flow. Keeping the heat contained is a big help. Once you start getting molten showing you are moving in the right direction. Before this there is air spaces insulating and only heat is where its in contact with pot and or each other chunk. the molten fills in these gaps aiding transfer of heat. If you watch a pot of small chunks melt you will see the molten come up fill in and solidify then remelt and come up farther each time its recovery is faster and goes farther. The dirt and air spaces all insulate the melt slowing it down.

Once pot is molten soak ladle and scraper in the melt to warm up then flux first with sawdust usually 2 times is enough, then with wax or paraffin. rewarm tools and your ready to pour ingots.

A sheet of ply wood or something to break wind is also help full, especially in cold weather