New to using a 'PEEP & GLOBE' at 50 yards...

[55fairlane]

Holy Cow!
Talking about taking this to the next level!

I guess I wouldn't be so amazed at your rig if I were to hang with the competition crowd but never have. I suppose that's where a fella can stay on the cutting edge.
I'll bet my rig is not worth the price of just your sight system, that's really cool.

Yes...you are welcome to post here, everyone is. I appreciate all the 'tips-N-tricks' posted here but can only use few of them as I'm planning on staying bone stock with this system I am using...heck it'll be a while before I can even get the most from what I have now.

Thanks for posting your gear and pearls of wisdom here.

Thank you! Match rifles have all gone to optics except for a few us old times
My sights were not cheap, but not unaffordable, centra rear, Phoenix front, medisha tube and sling stop/sling for right $500

Your savage and sights are good sights to learn on, and I have some savage rifle hang with anschutz and cz's

This is not an equipment race, this is a marksmanship issue....those who have mastered shooting "thru the irons" will always have higher scores then guys who start with optics

As a competition shooter, I can tell you there guys out there (like me) who know the irons are much more forgiving when shooting offhand and sitting........

Master your rifle and sights....learn the fundamentals of marksmanship.....get good sling, a good mat, glove and shooting scope......learn the fundamentals of marksmanship........in this day and age, the crowd grabs a rifle/bipod/big optic and proudly says, "hey world, I'm the greatest shot ever, look at my equipment "

I was at Camp Perry in 2019 for the rimfire shorter match.....I watched several men&ladies shooting apature sights out shoot the people with optics......

Wish you were in north east Indiana I would let ya try out my match rifle

[OS OK]

How does the barrel shoot back in after cleaning of some sort? How many shots does it take? Is there a predictable pattern to it?

That's some of the questions I mull over as I sit in the shop slugging cold beers and trying to make some sense of my many targets I've shot...

Well, I thought, since I was down to 30 rounds of the CCI Sub-sonic ammo...that I'd see how the barrel reacts to different cleaning schemes.
* clean the chamber with the wet .17 cal. mop and dry the chamber, this is done regardless of barrel cleaning scheme...done every time I shoot.

then...see how the barrel shoots back in from either...
* just a dry patch to remove the excess carbon, what I call a dirty barrel.
* or a wet patch of Hoppes followed by a couple of dry patches
* or running a bronze brush with Hoppes followed by a wet patch and several dry ones.

I have been monitoring in a rough sense how the Aguila sonics were reacting, not in a way I could put together to prove anything but just as a curiosity since I think I've seen some patterns...

Here's what I got the other day. (* disregard the markings about the wind, they were put there this morning & were not considered Sunday)



I was puzzled at how it came out. I took pictures after every 5 rounds shot. Intended to put 10 rounds on each barrel cleaning scheme and then compare the results. After many cold beers in the shop, I had nothing discovered...so I file the pictures away and chalk it up to just another hair-brained experiment that went south. No biggie.

This morning I am looking again, puzzled as I was before when it dawned on me that there was after all, something to learn here.
One thing I always check when I am shooting, is a program on the iPhone called 'Windy.com', I have my location logged in and the weather station is not but several miles if that from my home in the foothills.
Between the weather station info and the various flags I have on the range, I hopped to learn the wind speeds by knowing the flag angles.
I haven't seen much movement in the Aguila sonics groupings and the mild '0 to something' winds I've encountered so far. But, on Sunday and after the first target, I noticed that the '0' something had turned into a steady variable breeze.

This is why I put the wind markings on the targets this morning.
Have any others of you monitored the wind very closely?
Have any of you any empirical evidence of various winds and various speed ammo?

I would be curious to have a wind discussion here in this thread also...how do you handle the wind? What is, if there is, any solutions & how do they work for you?

[55fairlane]

Here are a few thoughts, my thoughts only YMMV
Rimfire cleaning, even on my Anschutz, I just pull a "bore snake" thru it couple times a year. Getting the barrel "spic & span" clean does not help accuracy. I havev2 "bore snake" pull thru cleaners, one gets some solvent on it and pulled thru, the second one is my "clean snake" , once thru each , done. Fire 5 sighter shots.

Wind calls are tough....check the flag, take your shot, call your shot check the shot with your spotting scope. Did you make the correct call? If so your well into learning, adjust your windage. Not the right call? Statr all over again until you can learn the wind & make the call.
A 3mph wind will push you a good minute and half at 50yards.

In competition you are always given sighter shots, take them , adjust your windage or elevation.

Rimfire central has lots of good info or better yet head over to accurate shooter, there is a Rimfire section full of competition guys.....

Now try to make the wind call at 300 & 600 yards.

[Chill Wills]

It is an interesting topic and double so shooting peep and aperture.
An especially nice December day today for shooting and seeing what ammo does in match conditions. Now and then it is good to test ammo outside in wind.

In preparation for a 100yd offhand match...
Like the last time I posted I shot some sighters to warm up the rifle from a fresh cleaned barrel. These are is three consecutive groups (benchrest) with no shots in-between, and not hand picked groups from many lesser ones.
The group impact is interesting - there was no sight change between types of ammo.
OS OK, just for the worth of seeing the sights and rifle here is a picture of what I am working with.
Rifle, rear sight, front sight. Groups at 100yd.

[OS OK]

Chill Wills... I really do like that rear Peep, Is that for adjusting the amount of light coming through? Or do you change peep size and globe size together?
I notice both 100 yard targets are different size bulls, 3 & 6".
That's some fine shooting on the 6" bull.

[Chill Wills]

Chill Wills... I really do like that rear Peep, Is that for adjusting the amount of light coming through? yes adjustable for the light conditions and shooting offhand I open it up all the way to find the target as fast as I can, so I don't wear out my hold looking for it. Or do you change peep size and globe size together? Yes. You can change both as well as change size quickly and sometimes it can help on dark days - just open everything up.
I notice both 100 yard targets are different size bulls, 3 & 6". Yes, different targets. I just posted junk targets to put some rounds on paper to get the rifle settled in. At the time I had not planed to picture and post them. What caught my attention was the major impact difference in the two makes of ammo. Generally I do not see that much difference when the bullet weights are both the same (40 grn) and the velocity are so very close.
That's some fine shooting on the 6" bull.

Keep the good entries going. There is a lot of helpful info here.

[OS OK]

Keep the good entries going. There is a lot of helpful info here.

Where did you get that peep? I wonder if there's a peep like that that'll fit the Williams?

[Chill Wills]

I think you can get one for it.
They are known as Hadley eye cups - or were back 120 years ago.
This one is made by Steve Baldwin and it comes with the rear tang sight.

Your best bet getting one is through Lee Shaver. The thread pitch for sight you have will be needed to order one from Lee Shaver. He has a web sight. He may know the correct thread for your brand right off. His product looks slightly different than mine but works just the same. One thing, make sure you have enough clearance back behind the sight for the larger diameter eye cup.

You likely know this, using the smaller apertures works like a pin-hole camera to sharpen the focus, but there is a point when going too small doesn't work and trades off our older eyes ability to gather enough light. When that happens, the hole looks like we have lint or fibers in it and we need to clean it out. BUT, it is clean. Open up one stop at a time until it is clear.

[OS OK]

"Thaaaaaank You Chill Wills!"

[OS OK]

I have found this for the 'diopter' (?) type peep but am unable to search and find the particular model of Williams sight on my rifle?
Does anyone know which one I should order?

Here's the site that sells them...

http://www.meritcorporation.com/size_info.html

Here's the sight on my MKII...



Sorry about being so helpless...this is all new to me, Mom used to say..."You just don't know your butt from your elbows do'Ya kid!"

[Chill Wills]

I did not think this through but Yes, a Merit Co "iris" rear eye piece might be more in keeping with the sight set-up you have now. Did you check Brownells? They open up and down like a camera.
I show them on page 285 of their number 69 master catalog

If your current eye disk is threaded 10-32 (common) Merit makes one. Check with a machine screw to check thread size needed.

[ulav8r]

That is a Williams Foolproof sight. According to this thread https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/yell...n-t223708.html the thread size is 7/32x40.

[Chill Wills]

That is a Williams Foolproof sight. According to this thread https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/yell...n-t223708.html the thread size is 7/32x40.

7/32"-40 is an odd ball thread size for sure, 0.2185"-40tpi
I would think there are some aftermarket sight eye cups made for Williams sights with that thread.

[OS OK]

Ahhh, thanks boys...now I'm finally getting somewhere.

First off I think I need to quit calling this 'aperture' a 'peep sight'...right? And, what I am looking to buy with the 'adjustable-aperture' is called an 'iris'...right? Then...I see it referred to as an 'eye cup', well...I almost had it down correct. Somebody help with this nomenclature please!

Now as far as thread sizes go, I am a little familiar...being an electrician I am accustomed to threads like the 6-32 & 8-32 and so on but this 7/32-(28 or 32 or 40) was throwing me for a loop.
So naturally I go to the shop and start measuring, here's what I found about this Williams 'whatchamacallit'.

Here's the first part solved...



Here's the thread pitch per inch...



Here's the size of the 'aperture', uhhh...inside the 'eye cup'(?) ...



The .046" will fit inside with some slop & the .052" will not fit at all. I am guessing that this sight is a .050".
I hope I have it down now as far as what thread size fits this Williams, this has been confusing.

Ending this post with the question above... "Somebody help with this nomenclature please!"

[Chill Wills]

The aperture is a name for the hole we look through. However, when I change apertures in my front sight, I am not changing the hole really. But, people understanding I am changing the metal piece that forms the hole.

There are other words for the eye cup but I use that because it is in the common vernacular.

We are using both front and rear round aperture sights. We are shooting a round targets. It is a really good system. The eye tends to center up the round target in the round front aperture which is centered in the rear aperture. Man! ...it works well!

Different manufactures have there own names for their products too.

I am good with calling the system what every you want as long is I know what we are talking about. Slang and buzz words infiltrate most sports and I am good with that.

Keep on shooting and posting pictures, that is where the learning comes from. Good job.

[303Guy]

Well, I haven't looked at my aperture sight yet. I've been called back to work for a bit.

Anyway, my new ammo order only got approved two days ago so no new ammo to test at the range today but I'll just go and have some fun.

I am going to do a test today with a different king of aperture. I'll fill y'all in when I get back. It's just an aperture that mounts further back of the rear sight but uses the rear sight. More details to come if it works out.

[uscra112]

I have several old Stevens single-shots that have the original "sporting rear" sight in place as well as a Lyman #2 tang sight. I find that looking thru the small Lyman aperture sharpens the sights on the barrel markedly for my old eyes.

[OS OK]

Photos of the tables below are from this article here...
http://www.texas-mac.com/sitebuilder...ys-595x311.jpg

It looks like the one I need is the Lee Shaver...unfortunately, I can't find it in stock anywhere that they list in the article.

Evidently, this 7/32-40 designation is the same as 12-40, I suppose the 12 stands for American 'bolt shank' Gauge ? Who knows, I haven't figured this out yet...I was thinking of the 6 & 8 x 32 screws.

At one time in this country we had an American Standards Institute...I miss the old days where their standards prevailed. This wouldn't be so confusing today.

There are many suppliers of these unique sights...

TexasMac's Web Site
Back to Articles Page
SELECTABLE-APERTURE EYECUPS
By Wayne McLerran
Manufacturers & Suppliers:

Baldwin Sights (Steve Baldwin)
P.O. Box 971, Jones, OK 73049
Phone: (405) 399-2875
A well-known high-quality supplier of BPCR sights

Brownells Inc.
200 South Front Street, Montezuma, Iowa 50171
Phone: (800) 741-0015
Brownells sells Davide Pedersoli sights and Hadley-style adjustable
eyecup.

Buffalo Arms Co. (BACO)
600 Vermeer Court, Ponderay, ID 83852
Phone: (208) 263-6953
Buffalo Arms is the leading supplier of products for the BPCR reloader
and shooter. BACO sells the following brand of soule-type sights and
accessories: Kelley, Lee Shaver, Red River and Pedersoli.

Kelley Sights
High-quality sights for BPCRs. To check out the Kelley sight offerings
click on Kelley Sights above or Buffalo Arms Co. With the exception of
their Lyman-style eyecup Kelley sights are available for purchase from
Buffalo Arms.

Lee Shaver Gunsmithing
P.O. Box 570, 1020 Broadway, Lamar, MO 64759
Phone: (417) 682-3330
leeshaver74@yahoo.com
Lee supplies his own line of sights and accessories. Contact Lee
directly or go to Buffalo Arms Co. for his products.

Merit Corporation
P.O. Box 9044, Schenectady, NY 12309
Phone: (518) 346-1420
Merit manufactures adjustable aperture discs for shooting glasses and
rifle sights.

Montana Vintage Arms (MVA)
61 Andrea Drive, Belgrade, MT 59714
Daytime phone: (406) 388-4027, Evening phone: (406) 388-3405
MVA is a well-known high-quality supplier of BPCR sights and
accessories.

VTI Gun Parts (Pedersoli)
P.O. Box 509, Lakeville, CT 06039
Phone: (860) 435-8068
mail@vtigunparts.com
VTI is the USA based supplier of Davide Pedersoli sights, parts and
accessories. Pedersoli sights are also available for purchase from
Buffalo Arms (www.buffaloarms.com).

[uscra112]

Appreciate your posting that chart.

It wasn't until WW1 that thread standards began to be enforced in the USA. Before that manufacturers used whatever they pleased. Often deliberately, to make it necessary to come back to them for parts. The gun makers were bad, but machine tool makers were even worse.

With the exception of that 10-30 thread that Stevens used (starting in the 1880s) all those threads are current standards. Look 'em up in the Machinery's Handbook.

BTW some of my rifles wear sights from Lee Shaver and MVA. Both very high quality.

[OS OK]

@ uscra112 ... I don't get the reason the 7/32-40 is the same as the 12-40...what's the '12' relate to?