New to using a 'PEEP & GLOBE' at 50 yards...

[OS OK]

Harry Tobin is back at it again...when he gets his brain engaged there's no stopping him.

Here's his latest creation, it's in the mail & when I get it, I'll pull the scope off the MKII and get back going with the 'Peep & Globe' again.



Harry said he is trying to get more light into the iris and reduce that fuzzy look from light diffraction...

"Thank you Harry...I really appreciate your sleepless nights as you lay there thinking about my rifle! Your the best Harry!"

[Harry Tobin]

Harry Tobin is back at it again...when he gets his brain engaged there's no stopping him.

Here's his latest creation, it's in the mail & when I get it, I'll pull the scope off the MKII and get back going with the 'Peep & Globe' again.



Harry said he is trying to get more light into the iris and reduce that fuzzy look from light diffraction...

"Thank you Harry...I really appreciate your sleepless nights as you lay there thinking about my rifle! Your the best Harry!"

Now I know it’s not perfect but that acrylic sheet is so darn hard to work with. Now hopefully with more light coming thru diffraction will lessen the effect. It’s just an idea and if ya don’t try you’ll never know. Don’t worry big brother I got you back!

[OS OK]

Got out today with the MKII & set it up as a peep-n-globe sight system.... and it was like I landed on another planet!

Oh my gosh what a difference after shooting the CZ452 for so long...almost like I forgot everything I had learned, I struggled today boys! Was talking out loud to myself!
The trigger on the CZ is 10 ounces...the trigger on the MKII is 2 pounds 8 ounces! WOW! But heh...it's just a relative thing, we adapt and overcome.

I set up the chrony to get a baseline on this Eley Match ammo just as I did in the 'F-Class' post recently...here's the numbers...



and compared to the numbers of the same E. Match ammo in a custom chamber in the CZ452...(both 30 shot strings)



My first shot through a clean barrel that I had just a moment before wet swabbed with Hoppes & dry patched was this...and it happened to be the highest fps in the 30 shot string.



I had expected this first shot to be higher but the first shot from the CZ was from a dirty barrel, I think this may have a lot to do with that high number I got in the CZ?

OK...so what happened today? Here it is for what it's worth...



What a difference using this peep as compared to using a 36X scope...now I'm back to depending on my 71 year old eye! I think this new batch of Eley Match is going to require a sight change, I'll work on that next...
It was fun though...we do all this for the 'Grin Factor' right?

Soon I'll have Harry's latest creation and I'll post on what happens with that globe...

[OS OK]

Harry Tobin's latest creation has arrived ... and it is as different as it is awesome, here's the two side by side.
The one to the right 'was' his latest brainstorm and now the left one is.
I have 3 words for it Harry..."I like it!"



Here's what it looks like against the blue sky...so much more light available to the iris.



This is what it looks like from the 50 yard line...



You wouldn't notice since you fellas haven't been behind this iris shooting but I believe that there is much less diffraction around the inside diameter of the iris.

This next picture is new for this thread, there's been some conversation about the pressure wave as we either drop back through the speed of sound or launch our projectiles just under the speed of sound...this we talked about in the other thread about the 'F-Class BR' rifle. In an effort to record more data pertinent to the day of practice & testing I am including a picture of this barometer, hygrometer & thermometer ... the data may be useless or not but it's here for the record.



OK, enough about all this...here's what I did today...(this target, I had shot already with the other 'solid' globe pictured above), I patched the target and this picture is the first use of Harry's new creation...



I had to make a sight adjustment on the top right but the bottom 3 targets, I think show an improvement...give me some time to get used to this new sight picture & find just the iris setting & I think I might just surprise everyone with smaller and more uniform groups...at least that's what I hope to do?

[tazman]

Looking good!

[OS OK]

Well...some days you win...and some days you don't...but at least you had a good time!

As they say in the South..."I had my hat handed to me and they showed me the door!" Here's today's practice...



Shameful & I have no excuses, it is what it is. The wind is a cruel teacher...

I'm back to the rattle can making my own targets for the peep-n-globe once more.
Wasn't planning on shooting today...got up planning to go to the PO and pick up my new rest for the CZ, by the time I mosied towards the door the wife ask where I was going.
To the PO of course, I said...to get that new rest. "She asked if I planed on breaking in?"
"Duuuuuh" was my reply as I realized it was a Holiday. I went out to shoot anyway.

This was the day's conditions...



On the serious side... I remember many comments about watching the crown and seeing a star of lube on the crown. Saying that if it was uneven that you may have a crown problem. This photo was taken at the end of today's practice, at a cumulation of 95 shots total on a wet swabbed barrel.
I can't see even a hint of a 'star' of lube.
Could this pertain to 'lube sized' cast boolits in the big bores?

[dtknowles]

This is my only handy picture of a lube star. My Ruger #3 .22 hornet, cast plain based bullet sized lubed 50/50 NRA at less than 1800 fps.

Attachment 283822

This is after I lapped the crown, 1000 grit wet paper on an aluminum block. I will look for the before picture, it had a big spiral machining mark. That lube star is not perfect.

Not the promised before picture but another after picture

Attachment 283823

Still looking

Tim

[tazman]

OS OK----Since the crown on this rifle isn't flush cut but tapered into the bore, it may not show a lube star, ever.
I will check my rifles when I go to the range next.

[OS OK]

Thanks for those pictures Tim...

I can see now, how that star pattern would indicate an irregularity of the crown.

[dtknowles]

OS OK----Since the crown on this rifle isn't flush cut but tapered into the bore, it may not show a lube star, ever.
I will check my rifles when I go to the range next.

Yeah, I wonder about that crown. Very complex with a big countersink into the bore.

This is the crown and lube star on my Savage Anschutz

Attachment 283856

Tim

[tazman]

Yeah, I wonder about that crown. Very complex with a big countersink into the bore.

This is the crown and lube star on my Savage Anschutz

Attachment 283856

Tim

That picture is what the crowns on my rifles look like, recessed target crown. After shooting today, all the muzzles were wearing a lube star like the ones in your pictures do.

[303Guy]

OS, I would not expect a lube star with a 45° crown which is what your rifle has. I'm not sure what my rifle's muzzle looks like. Memory thing ya know. Of course there won't be a lube star with non- match or target ammo as those are dry lubes or have that black oxide coating or copper wash. However, there should be a powder deposit star around the muzzle.

Here is my 90° cut deep recessed crown.



I think this is the same rifle before recessing the crown with dry lubed ammo.



Not very clear but it looks like a grey powder deposit on the near 45° crown - probably around 60°. What is clear in this image is the muzzle condition. The rifling lands are not sharp to the crown, which is why I did the recess thing.

The 510 muzzle next to the Mauser muzzle with dry lube.

[OS OK]

Friday...4 June 21...0600 Pacific time...

[OS OK]

Wow...didn't realize it's been a month since I posted anything here. Not because I've lost interest, just been busy with the CZ452 and trying to find that elusive node.

I ordered 3 bricks of Eley Contact, this is their affordable $4.75/box-50 rounds. It's also a 42 grain RN & this MKII has done pretty good with that before but I don't recall the brand just now. Killough shooting Sports claimed this batch was 1046 fps.
I changed the peep and globe for the 6x24-50 scope in hopes to do a little ammo testing this morning.



While waiting for the ammo to be delivered, I had cleaned this bore with Hoppes and went several sessions with the JB Bore Shine and then cleaned it again with Hoppes.
Keep that in mind when you see the target below. We are starting out with 'raw-steel' in the bore.



I ran the Chronograph for all of the 40 shots on this target. Those numbers are noted on the target card. They are not impressive. I did notice that after the first 28 shots that barrel looked like it was starting to re-season, by spot 14 it started to pull together a bit. By the end of the session and after seeing what the ES & SD's were I was not very impressed. I attribute the poor performance to that squeaky clean barrel...at least I hoped that was what it was.

I changed the targets out and put up more, broke the chrony out again and thought I might see better numbers and better accuracy this next round...first target was for fun, the Hostage Target, just wanting to accumulate some rounds down the bore and help season it. Nothing to brag about on this target but I didn't expect too much either...



The last target was this for shooting the best groups. Again not much to speak of but I am convinced this will improve as I shoot more rounds through it and get that bore seasoned well.



After another 30 shot string between the last two targets the chrono pretty much gave the same numbers...bad.
There is a world of difference between shooting the CZ452 and shooting this MKII.

[uscra112]

Disappointing to say the least. I'd importune you to do a weight sort on it, but it would only rub it in.

[tazman]

Since I want to enjoy shooting and don't have high (for me) requirements for fun guns, I never use the same targets for them that I do for my bench rest rifles.
I don't want to do a direct comparison since I know they won't do what my bench rest rifles will. The expectations are different. They don't have to hit flyspecks and shoot tiny groups. Squirrel head size groups at 50 yards are perfectly acceptable.
That said, having a fun gun that shoots bughole groups is nice.

After 15-25 shots your barrel should be seasoned and fully coated with lube as much as it will get. If the ammo isn't working, I don't know what to tell you. Just use it for practice and plinking while realizing it isn't going to be as pinpoint accurate as the best stuff.

I think it is time to put the peep sights back on and see how it works with those. If it gives you basically the same groups you got with the other ammo, you have some good practice ammo. You now know what the limitations are with your rifle and this ammo.

[OS OK]

uscra112 ...&... tazman... Now you boys don't really think I'm going to settle for this mediocre @ best ammo do'Ya's?

There must be a way to bring truly sorry ES & SD's together with a mediocre at best rifle and get the best results..."what if we could 'tame' those barrel harmonics a little bit?"...what if there was this magic barrel device you don't have to adjust, one that would absorb a great percentage of the shock waves that travel towards the muzzle?
What could do such a thing?

What if you had a 'mushy metal' that didn't reflect harmonics...only absorbed them and let them turn into something like 'white noise'?

Pretty good daydream heh?
But ... I have some mushy metal...how about mercury?

I know...sounds like the ravings of a mad'man heh?



I can't help myself, I'm always off in left field thinking about such things. There's been a couple times in life that a 'hair-balled scheme' actually worked and you never can be sure about a thing unless you try it...right?
It didn't take much effort to thread a 10x32 into the opening of an empty Co2 cartridge to use as a 'fill plug'...then load it exactly 1/2 full of mercury with a syringe (5.2 ounces of mushy metal) and tape it onto the barrel where the cartridge was centered on a line 1.5" from the muzzle.

I have to try this, I know I prolly shouldn't advertise these 'spitwads' I do but it might just get someone thinking who does have a talent for solving problems...sometimes a very simple mousetrap is the best solution.

I'm pretty sure that I'll see some kind of change...whether it's for the better or worse? ...well...here's hoping with fingers crossed!

[tazman]

Actually, I thought you were going to wrap some sheet lead around the barrel.
You could also just go completely crazy and fit a tuner to that barrel.

[OS OK]

no tazman.... this rifle is not worth the effort or expense of a tuner, it could never approach the quality of the CZ in that respect. It's a cheap entry level rifle in this accuracy game.

I just wanted to see what something on the front end would do with 'not so good' ammo, something in my mind that would act like a shock absorbent?

Here's a comparison...the left card is the first I shot...the right two I did this morning with the device on the barrel...



A little closer look at today's two cards...I apologize for the picture quality, I took the pics in full shade and they came out with a blue tint, (so...I converted them to black & white) I think I see a difference? It may just be wishful thinking, I'll leave the call to you guys...you are objective.



Another comparison on the 'groups' target...here I can't see much change.

[uscra112]

Over 50 years ago I read about a corporate management study on how to maximize innovation. I've now long forgotten whether it was GE or IBM, or some other.

It turned be not $$$, not laboratory facilities, not even the credentials of the engineers.

It only correlated to how many things you try.