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Thread: New to using a 'PEEP & GLOBE' at 50 yards...

  1. #461
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    Thanks again. Yes, I looked at those links, thanks. I've refined my base mount drawing and I think I have the aperture height worked out. I need to set up the rifle and double check everything. I'll DM you as soon as I know what I need. I see I can use a standard off the shelf front globe assembly and make a mount to suite.

    It's been a lot of fun. Looking forward to your next chapter!
    If I had the skill-set to make one of these sights, I think I'd start with the front globe assembly, probably the dovetailed unit...the way I'm seeing this, that front globe assy. will determine your line of sight over the bore. The rear can be made to fit...me thinks?


    EDIT: I was looking back in this thread and discovered some pictures you posted (page 4, post number 74) of rear sight assembly's you found for sale...

    ¿- Can you purchase one of these yourself? - Can you get them shipped by the seller? - This would save you lots of time & the frustration of a DIY build.

    (If this is possible, I can send you the funds to cover this rear sight also...let me know, OK?
    The front globe assembly, I can purchase and have sent directly to me...then ship to you without any markings to indicate 'gun-parts'.)

    "Just a couple of thoughts to get your build up and running!"

    OOOP's Second EDIT: Further review of this thread showed me that you already have the rear assembly and the work you are doing is to fit a bar, a dovetailed length bar to the receiver..."Sorry...I have a very short & blurred memory! Never-mind my blundering!"
    Last edited by OS OK; 02-09-2021 at 12:52 PM.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  2. #462
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    A blurred memory is better than no memory! Sorry what were we talking about?

    Ha - I went to the doctor a few months ago and he asked my how my memory was so I said "Well you know .... umm .... sorry, what was the question again?" He laughed.

    But yes, it's the mounting bar I'm making. I can choose the high but would like to keep it as low as possible. I have worked out the minimum height it can be. That would be 37.5 mm/ 1.48" (call it 1.5 inches) above the bore center. From the catalogue it seems I can get a front globe that will fit into a dovetail on a muzzle attachment. That's the part I need to work out fully before selecting the globe.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

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  3. #463
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    A blurred memory is better than no memory! Sorry what were we talking about?

    Ha - I went to the doctor a few months ago and he asked my how my memory was so I said "Well you know .... umm .... sorry, what was the question again?" He laughed.

    But yes, it's the mounting bar I'm making. I can choose the high but would like to keep it as low as possible. I have worked out the minimum height it can be. That would be 37.5 mm/ 1.48" (call it 1.5 inches) above the bore center. From the catalogue it seems I can get a front globe that will fit into a dovetail on a muzzle attachment. That's the part I need to work out fully before selecting the globe.
    Good, got that all settled now...so long as one of us remembers to follow through on the selection of that dovetailed front globe assembly & I get your address...I can handle the rest.
    So...I won't bug you about it anymore.

    Thanks for getting back to me.
    charlie
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  4. #464
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    The NEW CHAPTER ... ELEY TENEX

    A new blank target...new ammo...same ole'rifle and ole'fart behind the peep...I wet mopped the barrel and chamber to rid myself of the Copper washed Aguila & am ready to get started today.



    This is pretty exciting...I first clipped some white paper on the sides of the backstop where I was seeing the wood behind the white face in the peep, that narrow sliver on left and right when shooting the outside spots top & bottom...this worked out well, now I can add a little strip of the same board and paint it white. All that was necessary is about a 6" wide strip on each side and about 18" high.
    On a bright day with the peep closed down for a small iris this side problem is not there but with the peep iris more open for today, it was overcast and dim...it showed that added white paper where the wood of the rail ties had shown before.



    This is the first target after the first 35 rounds. I shot the spots as they are numbered 1 - 6. The first Warmer shot remained at the 6 position but this ammo registered that shot within the 4" spot...they sorta started grouping as the barrel was conditioning to the tenex.
    The number two spot had me in a fright watching the 4 rounds landing in the same hole but then I guess I blew it and sent one a little wide.
    This target suggests that this tenex may be compatible with the harmonics of the barrel.
    Too soon to tell though as I couldn't repeat this again. I have to admit, I was a bit wound up and tight but I'll settle in very quickly to this slower paced routine.



    At this increased cost per round I will be shooting only one 6 spot target daily as weather permits & taking much more time as I perfect my sight alignment & triggering.
    I think the ammo will show it's capabilities with the MKII as I slowly work to hone my skills.
    This ammo is going to show my faults very well.
    I think the 'blame game finger' will be pointed at me primarily from here on out.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  5. #465
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    A curious thing happened at the Gun Shop yesterday...

    I was talking with my Smith about this MKII and how much I enjoyed learning this discipline. This Shop handles Estate Sales and such so there's no telling what you'll find there.
    I mentioned how some of you keep on me about mounting a good scope to see what she'll really do...Jerry pointed out a nice fixed 35 power 42mm scope that'll get the job done so I walked over and had a good look at it.
    I have never seen a 'finer' set of cross-hairs ever...

    Only problem is that this scope had some accessories attached...



    Under that scope was a CZ452 all tricked out for...I think, 'F Class'...shooting.



    Then under the CZ was something I never saw in person, only in pictures...I think it's an 'F Class - Open' rest...I don't know about this, it's going to take some study as this is just a little over my head just as the MKII was 3 months ago...





    I don't know the whole story of this beauty other than it was on consignment from an old'Fella who has had to give this shooting up, I think for health reasons.
    I could see the love & time & money spent by another man who was in pursuit of extreme accuracy on a different level entirely.
    Many a thought rushed through my little 'pea brain' as I stood there trying to comprehend what I was seeing.
    This is a level I normally would not allow myself to go but it was that time again where I have the opportunity to explore in an area of shooting I have only read about.

    SO....I adopted her! Will pick her up and bring'er home in 10 days...
    BUT...I want to emphasize this, I said I had 'goals' to reach with this MKII & I fully intend to stay with the MKII until I reach those goals, only then...I suspect later this spring we will explore this aspect of the 'Lowly .22lr rifle' on a bench rest.

    In preparation, I'll get my brother Manny and start construction of a proper concrete shooting bench on the 50 yard line. Anything less of a proper bench I think would be an embarrassment to what I think this rifle should be fired from...this will be the next project.

    When I go back to pick this up, I will leave a note behind to the old'Feller who has had to part with it. I will try to get in touch, hopefully face to face and find out all the details of this build....find out what he has done with her and hopefully get some 'tricks-n-tips' to boot.
    I especially want him to know how appreciative I am in having an opportunity like this to go down this particular road.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  6. #466
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    That "new" rifle is a bit beyond what I am doing. It is a full on open class rifle setup, where mine is factory class.
    Still basically doing the same thing I do just without any limitations.
    Looks to be a VERY nice setup.

  7. #467
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    I was hoping to hear from you tazman...I know your the CZ man in this thread.

    This is going to be a steep learning curve...for me, so much to learn in such a short amount of time!

    Going down to the 50 yd. line this morning to see if I can get it right today?
    Will post again tonight...
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  8. #468
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Nice acquisition!!!

    I really enjoy plinking, but anyone can do that. Shooting small groups separates the hacks from the marksmen.

    I would love to spend a couple of hours with that rig!!!

    Have fun.
    Don Verna


  9. #469
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OS OK View Post
    I was hoping to hear from you tazman...I know your the CZ man in this thread.

    This is going to be a steep learning curve...for me, so much to learn in such a short amount of time!

    Going down to the 50 yd. line this morning to see if I can get it right today?
    Will post again tonight...
    You really don't need to do anything different. The controls for the rest may be a bit different but the act of shooting will still be the same. You are just using optics instead of peep sights.
    Just hold, aim, and squeeze like you do with the rifle you have now. Adjust the scope for your ammunition and shoot.

    If you get a chance to talk to the previous owner, ask him what ammo shot best for him in that rifle. That would give you a head start on what to buy for it.

    If you want to get really crazy, just squeeze the trigger against the trigger guard using two fingers without wrapping your hand around the stock.
    Last edited by tazman; 02-10-2021 at 07:54 PM.

  10. #470
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    On the odd occasion I get envious! This is one of those occasions!

    Great acquisition! I'm sure the previous owner will be happy that you have possession of it. He will know it's gone to a good home. Now I'm looking forward to chapter three (or will that be a new book?) Do we really have to wait that long?
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  11. #471
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    On the odd occasion I get envious! This is one of those occasions!

    Great acquisition! I'm sure the previous owner will be happy that you have possession of it. He will know it's gone to a good home. Now I'm looking forward to chapter three (or will that be a new book?) Do we really have to wait that long?

    It that new rig shoots bug holes, it will be tough to let it rest for long....but that is me. Our friend may be more disciplined....or stubborn LOL.

    Looking forward to seeing the first targets.
    Don Verna


  12. #472
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    tazman... If you get a chance to talk to the previous owner, ask him what ammo shot best for him in that rifle. That would give you a head start on what to buy for it.


    Guess I forgot to mention it...sitting on the rest there to the right is a brick of the last lot of Eley Match he was using...



    303guy & dverna... I am sure it will have to be tested even if I shoot it off the flimsy table...gotta see how that trigger feels!
    That stupid 10 day waiting period passes much sooner if I don't think about it.

    Meanwhile, the nut behind the wheel settled down today!
    First time ever that I almost shot a 3/8'' group...



    & first time ever I shot 5 spots with groups all less than an inch.
    If I can get to doing this on a regular basis off that rest...I can go back to the bipod and see if I can do it with that? I hope this isn't a fluke, it feels like a milestone!

    I repaired yesterdays target and shot just the 6 spots...30 rounds, I want to make this ammo last...I did slow down, it took 28 minutes to do the 6 spots.

    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  13. #473
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    VERY nice. That is a significant improvement.
    Also nice to have that happen with the new ammo. It suggests possible things to come.
    Also, no wandering around on the target. All the bullet holes in the same general area on the circle after your first shot.

  14. #474
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Weather is not Permitting today...

    We have rain, gloomy clouds and wind coming in this morning that's going to stay for a couple days so I figured I could get out early today and get one last practice session before it hits.
    To tell the truth...I am 'Jone'sing' to get another good practice in, get another set of targets with less than an inch of overall groups.
    Well...the ole'Fat'man couldn't pull it off...
    I did experiment with a different target with a white bull & I think I like it...not sure yet in this dim light today but it seems to make that spot easier to center up in that front globe.



    I thought I had it going by the time I got to that top right spot but it was not to be...it's all the fault of....ME! So what's new? Like I said the other day, with a good ammo, the 'finger pointing blame game' will be pointed primarily at me...as it should be.

    "Oh well, we need the rain out here so I won't complain...I'll be back at it in a couple days, I hope sooner though!"
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  15. #475
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    That is coming together very nicely! One should of course not forget that this is all at 50 yds. My shooting is all done at 25m, half the distance.

    I have taken to a white center too. With a post front sight it helps identify the center of the post. Unlike your sighting system requirements, mine needs a tiny dot.

    This gives an idea of the target size.


    The white is about 1 1/2 times the boolit diameter. I can actually see it on top of the post which makes it possible to keep the vertical aim within that .32 ". Not that it helps much as you can see, remembering that's at only 25m.

    P.S. I enjoyed how you 'may have just forgotten' to show the rest of the picture with all that ammo!

    The problem as I see it with shooting normally, one can never be sure what causes groups to shrink and expand. Could be ammo/rifle, could be the eye not able to accurately discern the center for some reason. I find sometimes round holes don't look round. The pin hole lensing effect seems to change, depending on the light intensity and direction.

    I have a scope on one of my rifles, the 512. A very nice scope with fine cross hairs and clear focus and with that rifle I can sometimes shoot bug holes but sometimes the group shifts! Sometimes the group opens! I should try it on the small white dot. I probably won't be able to.
    Last edited by 303Guy; 02-11-2021 at 06:00 PM.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

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  16. #476
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    303guy... This is the thoughts of a novice at this game but I think that the slightest imperfection in our cheek weld can make that group shift around on the target face, just the same with parallax in the scope glass.
    I am paying attention to exactly how much flesh I have trapped over the riser, too much meat between my cheek bone and the riser has me looking high in the iris and makes me tilt my head down to to see correctly, at this point I am seeing through the very top of my glasses near the rim and I get a distortion from that.
    We have to pay such close attention, I think it is turning me into a machine. It is such a subtle difference in the line of sight height that if I don't pay close attention I find myself sitting there and wondering what made that round go out of the group.
    I hadn't planned on shooting just one set of 6 spots a day as I usually do 12, sometimes 18 if I am experimenting but, due to this increased cost of fine ammo I am taking much more time in setting up the shots...making myself start over with the shot set-up when I am pushing the breath window or changing iris sizes as light changes...Now I think this is a good thing slowing down, savoring every shot set-up and trying to be mechanical...if we want consistency we have to be methodological to the point of OCD.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  17. #477
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    IT RAINED LAST NIGHT... It's suppose to rain again this evening & tonight...but this is what came with the morning sunrise...looks like a shooting day to me!



    I rediscovered something that I've been told several times before..."get some shade on that rear peep."
    The last few sessions have been overcast & that level of light on the rear peep doesn't seem to affect me but today's brilliant sun did. I ended up wearing my cap to shade the iris.
    Here's today's work...



    I am amazed now just how large of a group a 1" group looks. They seem spread out like the 1 1/2" groups from before.
    Notice how small the warmers spot is, I noticed this the other day...the first shot is not outside the spot, still down low around the 6:00 position though.

    Sunday looks promising and Tuesday as well, every other day...but it'll help me to stretch this ammo a little farther.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  18. #478
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    What would happen if you made your black target the size of the white spot? It's interesting that eight of the first ten shots fell into the same group area, two of which we know is the first and second shot, so that makes it eight out of eight! On the third target something seems to be changing. Cheek pressure perhaps? Sun warming one side of the barrel? What side was the sun shining when you shot those? Your morning sun would be on your left, would it not? Wind direction was dead ahead so it couldn't be that the wind was cooling the left side of the barrel. Or could it?

    Looking closely at your targets, I seem to be seeing signs of boolit yaw. Target two not so much but target four looks odd. Am I mistaken?

    [/url]
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  19. #479
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    The sun is directly to my back this early and progresses around to my left at mid morning to noon. The backstop is West.

    I think the roving groups are the result of the cheek weld. The sight alignment takes just a subtle misalignment and the round will go 1/2" out of group.

    I am constantly looking at the concentric circles formed in the iris & globe and trying not to peek directly at the spot. There's something that I'm not realizing about this, it seems simple enough but doing it over and over again is a different thing all together.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  20. #480
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    I may be way off base here but this is how I understand a peep and globe to work.
    You look through the center of the peep at the target and align the center of the front globe with the target. Since you align the peep center with your cheek weld and eye, you no longer need to consider that part. By focusing on the target, the front globe will more or less automatically center the target in the globe. It is just something that your eyes do automatically.
    I think by focusing on centering all the circles and not focusing on the target, you are making things more difficult. You are forcing things instead of letting them occur naturally. Too many things to watch all at once. Like the Japanese say "Too many minds".

    When I was shooting competitive archery, I was using a peep on the back and a ring(globe) for a front sight, very similar to what you are using. I would center my eye in the peep and put the ring around the bullseye and focus on the target. The front ring/globe would center itself without me consciously thinking about it.
    It worked very well for me as I was able to win several state lever championships using this method. I was putting an average of 54 of 60 shots into a 1.5 inch circle at 20 yards while standing. The remaining shots were always very close but not quite touching that 1.5 inch circle.

    By just allowing the ring to center on the target, it worked fine. I always focused on the target and let my eyes naturally take care of the alignment.

    Might be something to try out a time or two with some of your practice ammo and see what you get. Just try letting your eye focus on the target and see if the rings don't line up without much effort on your part.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check