New to using a 'PEEP & GLOBE' at 50 yards...

[Harry Tobin]

Dang buddy send me that target I got a place one the wall!!!!!!!

[OS OK]

Dang buddy send me that target I got a place one the wall!!!!!!!

Harry...did you look at those 3-D printed shooting glasses in post 197?
Did you follow that link?
Is your mind on fire now thinking of the possibilities?

[Harry Tobin]

Small variable iris's (?) are available for not much money if you don't mind waiting for the slow boat from China. I have bought a few of these in various shapes and sizes and all work well.

The advantage of an iris is that you can change it to suit the current light conditions, adjust the same way you would with a 6 hole aperture, keep stopping down until you start to loose light then come up one stop.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005...archweb201603_

Here's my 3d printed precision pistol shooting specs with one of these iris fitted.

That’s an interesting is that your own design or did you download it?

[1066]

That’s an interesting is that your own design or did you download it?

Yes, my design and make Harry. Although I've shot many competitive disciplines over the last nearly 60 years I have always enjoyed the challenge of the one handed, open sight precision pistol game.

The pistol there is a Walther CM2 match airpistol dating from the 1980's, it still shoots well although I now use a Morini 162 with an electronic trigger as my match airpistol. The match is 6 x 10 shot cards shot in 1.5 hours. One hand, open sights, unsupported at 10 metres (33 feet) .

I also shoot similar competitions with a .32 muzzle loader or a .357 muzzleloader.

My .357 muzzle loader:

My .32 muzzle loader:

Morini:

my specs:

[Harry Tobin]

Yes, my design and make Harry. Although I've shot many competitive disciplines over the last nearly 60 years I have always enjoyed the challenge of the one handed, open sight precision pistol game.

The pistol there is a Walther CM2 match airpistol dating from the 1980's, it still shoots well although I now use a Morini 162 with an electronic trigger as my match airpistol. The match is 6 x 10 shot cards shot in 1.5 hours. One hand, open sights, unsupported at 10 metres (33 feet) .

I also shoot similar competitions with a .32 muzzle loader or a .357 muzzleloader.

My .357 muzzle loader:

My .32 muzzle loader:

Morini:

my specs:

I thought that first pistol was air, thanks for clarifying that fact. Looks like some of the grips you showed were printed, I'm amazed at your 3D CAD programming capabilities. I see things in my head and at times it’s hard for me to get the cad to do what I want, I’m using Fusion 360 and has way more power than I need. Thanks for showing your stuff to us, nice collection you have there

[dverna]

OS OK

I have enjoyed your journey. First a comment on check weld.

Close your eyes and get into your gun to make the shot. Open your eyes....are you lined up? Do this a few times to see where your alignment is. If you are not lined up, modify the check piece. The gun should “fit” without needing to force you into achieving sight alignment.

Also, doing your ammunition testing will be more productive using a scope. If you know your gun/ammo is capable of say .75” 50 yard groups. That will give you a baseline for evaluating how different iron sight combinations are performing.

I am a believer in the adjustable iris...I am old too...LOL.

Again, have enjoyed your thread.

[OS OK]

Thank you dverna... I too have enjoyed this thread. So many experienced competitors sharing hard earned information, it's been a real fun trip.

Harry said that the sight cups he printed should arrive soon, so...I'll have some pictures regarding me experimenting with them and the smaller iris...I'll relate what I see with my 70 year old one good eye. heheee...God gave me one pretty good'un and the other is mainly just face decoration.

Then RayO, the CB member I bought the #3 Merit disc from just sent me a PM saying that the sight is in the mail, I'm excited to use an adjustable iris.

The .050" cup I am using currently is close enough to my face that it doesn't seem very small, even after extending the stock an inch, I can almost see the housing of the front globe...I want to trim that view down quite a bit and experiment with the globe sizes, in other words I want a smaller sight picture overall.

We'll see more soon...ya'll hang in there, we ain't had all the fun just yet & thanks to all who have contributed to the success of this thread, I appreciate it very much, just an ongoing conversation of a bunch-O-gun'nuts and so far nobody's got a 'burr in their britches'...hahaaa...I'd call that a win-win!

[OS OK]

Had a really nice fall day today, it wasn't too chilly for a 'freezie cat' like me so I got out to shoot some. I did have a couple of objectives.

One> was to move the rear sight forward 1/4" on the little rail that is mounted to the side of the receiver. I currently have that .050" iris in the cup and I have that 'lint look'...just thought I'd see if that would make any difference but it didn't.

Two> I noticed that the outside of the globe where the white even circle should be was not evenly reflecting full light because of that silver rubber mat showing around the target paper so I hung a large piece of corrugated box board to make up for that...this did help some so I think I'll make a large backboard from a spare 4' X 4' piece of door skin and paint it white. I'll put a cutout in the center that the target and its backer can hang. Does that make any sense? Here's today's setup for testing that idea.



Today's performance was a big nonpluss, the results were not anything to be excited about but I enjoyed myself as usual.
I have those eye cups that Harry Tobin is sending on the way along with a #3 Merit variable iris eye cup also...looking forward to shooting with them and getting this 'lint look' resolved. Well...here's what I did, for better or worse, it is what it is.

first set



second set

[dverna]

I do not like those shoot-n-see targets. Seeing a good group developing can give someone the “yipes”. I have seen inexperienced shooters lift their head as soon as the trigger is released looking for where the shot hit.

Plus they are expensive and I am cheap on some silly things...lol. I am really screwed up....have a $2000 scope on my long range rifle and fret over the cost of a target...it is a disease.

OS OK, you will love that adjustable iris. Hope your weather holds up.

Group’em tight!!

[tazman]

OS OK--- I admire your determination and tenacity. You seem to have improved dramatically over the last weeks.
I know my limitations in regard to the style of shooting you are doing. I can only admire your work.

[OS OK]

Thanks for the kind words dverna & tazman, I'm just an old fat'man out here behind enemy lines entertaining himself in retirement...

Regarding the various targets,
I thought I might try these new fangled shoot-n-see targets with the peep-n-globe, having never bought targets like this I didn't know what to expect. I found them all over the web from Midway to Amazon. So I just bought a bunch or every size and shape. The ones I'm currently using don't work as well as others but they're easy to see and repair. I don't know which direction I'll go in when all this junk is used up. Heck, I'm a little bit frugal at times but for this new rifle I just said 'screw it' let's try them all.



Up until I started this quest for learning the Peep & globe I have used home made targets made from DIY stencils and rattle can paint on free corrugated box board that the neighbors throw away every week. There's no end to shipping boxes these days out here in the country since so many are ordering online, every week there's a nice selection of medium to large boxes out where the county makes us locate our cans for pickup.

I thought originally that something like the diamonds below might be the bees-knees for this peep but they're too small to see at 50 yds. They are OK at 25 but I'm never at that distance now.









Seems as though I've invented a different game for each design to practice with and entertain myself. No telling what you'll see next? In the beginning, years ago I used to hand draw the dang things on poster paper rolls or butcher paper rolls.



This is one of a set of different targets me and some old friends used to compete at once a month, back then it was more about gamesmanship and having a good blasting time & letting off steam than timed accuracy. My how the times have changed...

[tazman]

I like to use the "shoot n see" targets when shooting my small caliber centerfire rifles at 200 yards. It makes the impacts visible through the scope.
Since I use a scope of fairly powerful magnification, I don't need them under 100 yards. At 50 yards, where I do the majority of my 22lr shooting, the holes are usually pretty easy to see with the scope.
Different strokes and all that.

[OS OK]

I have a Bushnell Elite 3200 6x24x50mm 1/8MOA Mil-dot sitting on an 30/06 in the safe...

but

I have sworn to high heaven not to use that on the MKII until I have done all I can to master the peep-n-globe system. Who knows when or if that'll ever happen.

but

It is tempting tazman!

[tazman]

I have a Bushnell Elite 3200 6x24x50mm 1/8MOA Mil-dot sitting on an 30/06 in the safe...

but

I have sworn to high heaven not to use that on the MKII until I have done all I can to master the peep-n-globe system. Who knows when or if that'll ever happen.

but

It is tempting tazman!

Using the scope temporarily would allow you to find the limits of the rifle and ammunition. Having determined which ammo works best and what the rifle is capable off, you can take the scope off and find out how good you are really doing in comparison to the possibilities. You may be doing better than you think.
No need to use the scope unless you really want to.

[dverna]

Using the scope temporarily would allow you to find the limits of the rifle and ammunition. Having determined which ammo works best and what the rifle is capable off, you can take the scope off and find out how good you are really doing in comparison to the possibilities. You may be doing better than you think.
No need to use the scope unless you really want to.

Very good advice....establish the abilities of gun and ammunition before evaluating your ability, and which insert/iris works best for you.

[Chill Wills]

Have you tried letting the rifle run with as little holding as you can manage to keep the sights on target, versus pulling it in tight for each shot? Compare groups with the two very different holds?

With a front and rear bag set-up (bench rest) it is known as riding the bags. You hardly touch the rifle. Shooting prone, it is just holding with the lightest touch. In my prone stages, 22rf and center fire, I remove my thumb from the the top of the wrist and relax it along side my index finger. This keep you from twisting the rifle as much pulling the trigger.

[OS OK]

Well...you guys, lemm'e see if I can explain my reasoning about that scope. It prolly ain't the right way but it is my approach and it seems to work when I'm having one of those days where the planets are aligned and I'm holding my mouth just right...You guys have advised this using the scope before and I haven't taken your advise but please don't think I don't appreciate the input or that I am ignoring sound advise, it ain't that way.

Years ago, before I moved up here on this ridge, I lived in a holler where I had a great 150 yard range paralleling the creek. I worked with my Rem 700 Varmit .308W there doing ladders & load refinement and then just enjoying shooting what I thought was a level of precision.



I noticed that I was able to accurately call most of my shots when I sent the round, of course I loose sight temporarily of the target from recoil but at that point of release I knew exactly where that round was going to appear when I looked after the shot.
I'm not sure what that awareness is called, a 'zen' thing or something, but...when I am focused doing my part I was right on the money, it is like you have some very quick instinct about recognizing where that cross-hair was when the trigger broke...does that make sense to you guys?

Today, with the Peep & globe, when I'm on the game...I think that sense is starting to develop with this rifle. In a different way but yet the same, sorta kinda? Over the past couple months I have had many practice days where I was calling successfully about 70% of the shots.
There is a condition that exists...here again I can't explain well what I see & feel about it but there's days where that sight alignment is right and the sight picture suddenly 'pops' and at that point the sight picture is crystal clear and focused....the globe is focused and then suddenly the spot & the globe is focused together, weird heh?
(could have something to do with the lense they put in my eye when I had cateract surgery, I got a different lense that 'should' allow close & far vision)
Anyway, the sight picture then may or may not be perfectly centered and the picture is moving some as I make the final adjustment, I mean a very subtle adjustment centering that spot and when I break the shot I can call it before looking into the scope.
Wish I knew what this phenomena was so I could recreate it on demand but...this is happening more and more on regular basis!

I know...hahaa...I can just see you guys shaking your heads and wondering about the mental state of this ole'FatGuy but I really believe something is coming together.
That point when things 'pop' and that focused condition appears, I am usually about 1/2 way into my breath window, at this point I have maybe 25% of that window left before a conscious thought appears in my noggin and says, "your pushing it...back off, take a breath, start again" when I go that far and have that concious thought, the 'pop' condition is immediately gone.
Several times I have noticed that before the sight picture 'pops' like that, I have actually felt some kind of sensation like my eye relaxed, ughhh? Like my something relaxed having to do with the visual picture...it's like I stopped straining to control all that I'm trying to keep alignment of and suddenly all of the sight picture is correct. This is concentric circles, an easy thing for the eye to deal with until you purposely start evaluating the conditions, the alignment of those concentric circles and when I do that I loose track of other allignments in that sight picture...OMGosh, it's getting deep trying to explain this and I'm going around in circles again.

You guys kinda understand or ?
That's why I resist that scope. To me, in my weird ways...using that scope will reveal the last chapter of the book without having read and experienced all the chapters in between...OMGosh, I can't believe I just said that!

[OS OK]

Have you tried letting the rifle run with as little holding as you can manage to keep the sights on target, versus pulling it in tight for each shot? Compare groups with the two very different holds?

With a front and rear bag set-up (bench rest) it is known as riding the bags. You hardly touch the rifle. Shooting prone, it is just holding with the lightest touch. In my prone stages, 22rf and center fire, I remove my thumb from the the top of the wrist and relax it along side my index finger. This keep you from twisting the rifle as much pulling the trigger.

These are excerpts from post number 4 first page Chill Wills I was trying to describe how I embraced this rifle...

re: the stock
(Next is to pull the stock against my shoulder where all I feel is myself against the butt stock firmly, again no pressure...I am just there maybe only a pound of pressure, if that? It's hard to describe that, I'm trying not to influence the rifle in any direction, I am just behind it like a car parked against a wall, just touching it.)

re: the trigger arm
(My trigger arm is not contacting the wrist of the butt behind the action so there's no pressure from that arm weight on the stock, instead I have my hand connected to the trigger guard with my trigger finger lightly contacting the trigger...I am 'pinching' a 2 pound trigger to loose the round...this does not influence the rifle as best as I can observe...)

[Chill Wills]

Thanks for posting that. I no sooner posted 216 and walked away and then thought, was this covered way back at the front end of this long string of posts?
This topic (holding the rifle) is on my list this winter to revisit, testing the three holds from both bench and prone, light, medium and hard holds once again. ...just to confirm in my mind how this works out with my target rifles.

One of the toughest competitors I shoot with, claims he holds hard. "I try to squeeze the oil out of the wood" he says with a grin. Maybe just throwing off the competition.

No plastic in our game, 22BPCR. Traditional singleshot rifles. Walnut and blued steel. That is not right or wrong. It is just the rules of this game to keep the focus on the rifleman and not any kind of equipment race.

[OS OK]

Chill Wills...this concept of 'embracing' the rifle so 'lightly' is new for me and is only because the recoil with the .22lr is so light.
I am embracing the .308W also but have it firmly against the shoulder, the main idea for me is to NOT drape myself or my clothing (jacket) over the stock in any way, I just get behind it to some degree of firm contact but that concept is strictly about bench shooting.

I know, hahaaa...I'm weird.