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Thread: New to using a 'PEEP & GLOBE' at 50 yards...

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    New to using a 'PEEP & GLOBE' at 50 yards...

    Sept. of this year I got a Savage MKII FVT with the 'peep & globe' sight set-up.
    I've tried all the bulk type ammo I have in stock with little success in attaining sub 1" groups but am unsure of my abilities with this sight system.
    I like it, don't get me wrong...I think it is a great challenge to try to master this system as best as I can with 70 year old eyes.

    Currently I am using this Aguila .22lr Super Extra..



    The gun shop shelves here 'Behind Enemy Lines' are pretty slim these days.

    I have been learning about sorting .22lr by measuring the 'rim thickness' but know very little about what I am doing in this exercise & don't really know much about sorting .22lr ammo for the best results. I have loaded centerfire many decades & understand all that we can do to improve ammo as we load center fire but understanding the quirks about .22lr is different, guess I never took it seriously before.



    I made a jig to measure this rim thickness from a .243W case, I squared the case mouth & taper crimped/closed the mouth just enough to allow the .22lr to slip in without scraping any lube from the lead.



    I have been shooting here at home just about every day since Sept. and have targets like the following where I use a 'Warmer's spot' for 5 to 10 warmer shots before trying 5 rounds each on 3 different spots.
    I have been experimenting with various methods of cleaning the barrel and/or dry patching to see how the rifle reacts & learning to read the wind flags I have placed 25 yds. from my bench and at 50 yds. above the target backstop.
    This is about average for my ability thus far using the Aguilla...

    (using both sides of the cardboard target)




    I guess I am asking you guys to post pictures of what you are doing with your 'Peep & Globe' sights on your rifles @ 50 yards & with whatever kind of ammo your using.
    Also asking for any 'Tips & Tricks' to becoming more proficient with this system.


    I'm using a Harris bipod & basically my fist under the rear stock...keeping it simple as I don't intend to start buying lots of accessories and get caught up in any competetions...I'm just competing against myself.



    *Please feel free to post pictures and advise about anything you have related to the 'Peep & Globe' & what you do and how you go about it...I'd like to make this thread all about the .22lr using this system.
    thanks ... charlie
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  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Put the rifle completely on bags and shoot. Using the bipod and holding to your shoulder, you will never be able to hold perfectly steady and achieve optimal groups. My opinion.
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  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master pietro's Avatar
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    .

    I may be preaching to the choir, but the best accuracy cannot be achieved via the shooter trying to center the front sight in the middle of the peepsight's aperture.

    The Gold Standard for shooting with peepsights is to look through, and not atn the aperture, then placing the front sight on target.

    That method results in the shooter's eye having to focus on the choice of two things ILO three - the front sight & the target.

    I've found that, FOR ME, it's better to focus on the front sight & leave the target a little out of focus (YMMV)

    .
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  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Being a neophyte in this 'Peep & Globe' set-up, I have been doing the following after having the rifle set on the table aligned with the target and adjusting my seating to comfortably lean into the rear of the but-stock without applying pressure to either the top or the rear of the stock, it is only contacting my shoulder very lightly as I am positioned behind the rifle and not on the stock with downward pressure on the rear of the comb.

    Next I place only my lower chin against the side of the comb, no pressure sideways or downward and sight over the top of the rear peep and over the top of the front globe enclosure.
    What I see is basically this...



    Next is to pull the stock against my shoulder where all I feel is myself against the butt stock firmly, again no pressure...I am just there maybe only a pound of pressure, if that? It's hard to describe that, I'm trying not to influence the rifle in any direction, I am just behind it like a car parked against a wall, just touching it.

    Next I bring my head straight down while the chin is still in contact with the side of the comb but am looking to bottom out on the top of the comb with the underside of my cheek bone and at this time some pressure is applied...again, a poor picture but this is where I am at this point...



    Having done the preliminary sighting over the top of the sights I have my fist under the rear of the stock like this with a closed fist but not squeezing it tight, only firmly closed and muscles in the hand relaxed & holding.
    The rifle is now pressing down on the fist from the cheek weld I have just established...I'm a leftie, so it looks like this...



    If at this point I have not moved the rifle out of alignment what I will see is close to this but with only one spot in the front globe (pictures are hard to take to explain what I'm looking at)



    The front globe is centered in the rear peep and that part I have not been adjusting as I have been practicing an exact cheek weld that aligns this peep and globe, I have been concerned only with a good focus on the front Globe and a bit of a fuzzy target that needs very little relaxing of my under-stock fist to center it up. That adjustment is very subtle.
    When I have made the cheek weld the spot I am shooting is somewhere in the globe or I have to start the process over again so that it does appear there when the cheek weld is made.
    I try very hard not to change focus from the front globe to the target spot. More and more I am learning to trust that my eye will naturally allign the spot in the globe..."that does take some concentration as I have to fight myself from wanting to focus on that spot"

    My trigger arm is not contacting the wrist of the butt behind the action so there's no pressure from that arm weight on the stock, instead I have my hand connected to the trigger guard with my trigger finger lightly contacting the trigger...I am 'pinching' a 2 pound trigger to loose the round...this does not influence the rifle as best as I can observe...




    From there I settle myself with a breath or two...blow half of it out and now have a 'breath window' to send the round. Maybe 10 seconds, I can't say as I haven't timed that breath window, but...if I run out of breath I have to quit the shot, remain in position...take another breath or so and begin the blow and sending routine.

    If something else has happened to the shot where things are out of alignment so that i must wrestle the rifle...I quit the shot all together and sit up, make the correction and start the sequence once again.
    I am single feeding this rifle as a single shot with a plastic plug in place of the magazine so every shot I make, I sit up and each shot is started fresh from the start.

    OK, that's basically what I'm doing, I hope I've explained it well enough...go ahead and critique what I'm doing, don't worry, I have thick skin, remember...what I'm doing, I have worked out on my own as I don't shoot with groups at a public range...I'm just a fat'old'Fart that likes shooting right here at home.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Very interesting - thanks for that.

    I am of course envious of you being able to shoot in the comfort of your own home! I worked out my techniques on my own too. I have on the odd occasion had someone trying to 'school' me on how to shoot. "Your doing it wrong .... you must do it this way .... " It's funny how these 'experts' go quite when we bring the targets in. There was this one fellow I would have liked schooling from though. Man he could shoot!

    But where I seem to differ from most is my insistence on focusing on the target. It just works better for me with my eyes. I'm finding that there are too many variables to contend with all at once. The most obvious variable is me. I'm thinking along the lines of fully bagging the rifle as Bohica suggests, to eliminate the 'me' variable. I did once build a rifle rest with a remote trigger then I found I could shoot just the same with a good front rest but at least I had establish a benchmark. Perhaps I should do the same now. I know my hold on the rifle is somewhat inconsistent or at least I think it is. Then there is the sighting system I have. That's my real challenge. I am considering mounting a laser pointer on the gun so as to eliminate sighting error just for establishing an accuracy benchmark. I just happen to have such a green laser.

    My ultimate goal is to acquire and fit a peep and globe on one of my rifles.
    Last edited by 303Guy; 11-08-2020 at 02:43 PM.
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  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Thanks for replying 303Guy...

    I am trying to learn this system with the least amount of aids to the rifle as I can manage. I guess that's an old'skool attitude but I want to be able to shoot anywhere I may be, could be propped over a fallen tree or in a tree fork or on the ground...all them shooting bags would be a cumbersome thing to tote along...me is thinking.

    It's the same for me as you...trying to establish some 'benchmarks' so I can judge my performance and then eventually be able to honestly judge the performance of any particular ammo I come across...I don't see myself spending high-$'s for the hi-end ammo...just wanna learn to squeeze the best accuracy out of what I have on hand.

    Thanks for adding to this thread, I appreciate your and everyone's inputs.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    I shoot NRA and USA prone smallbore matches with both irons and scope. We shoot prone from a sling but I suggest buying real match ammo, you can mail order it (we have to) and you are going to get test lots of the grade you choose, test them then buy the winning LOT, the label is not as important as the lot number. Eley black you can usually find lots that will give you one ragged 5 shot hole at 50 yards, we test at 100 and will only buy lots that shoot 1" or less. Ammo test with a scope if you can, that will help not only select the best lot but tell you what is you with the irons and what is the ammo and rifle. Shooting irons I want a lot of white around the bull in the front aperture, maybe 1 1/2 times the size of the bull, this really shrinks groups in my experience. That Williams rear sight could have a lot of play in it, inspect it for play and tighten it up, I recall a friend adding a flat washer to something to remove play. If that rear sight is flopping around you'll never get small groups. I am proud of you! Shoot well. Here's an easy place to order match ammo. http://www.champchoice.com/store/main.aspx

    PS, I see you are using the simple pin hole rear aperture, an adjustable aperture will help a lot, as would filters and polarizers if you so choose. Flaps on your hat to keep the stray light out of your eyes will help a lot too, as will a blinder for the non aiming eye. Good Luck!!

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    The first thing I would do is lose the bipod. Second put a good scope on the rifle and use it to determine the best ammo for that rifle. As bonus you will see what to expect from rifle shooting aperature sights. Above somebody stated to look through rear aperature. That is correct you should not be aware the rear is there. Like handgun you focus on front sight. One match I use to shoot at American Legion was 100’ and I reamed one of the loupe inserts for globe so it perfectly fit bullseye super tuned it put them right in the middle. One thing guys don’t like to admit is that their rifle isn’t capable of the degree of accuracy they are playing with. I quit shooting the local clubs because it became an arms race. Guys going whole hog and spending several thousand on scopes and rifles to win penny ante shoots.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    @ Hip's Ax

    Thank you, thank you, thank you...this is exactly the 'Tips-N-Tricks' type stuff I've been wanting to hear and get posted here in this thread.
    Thanks also for the ammo link.
    I've read about an adjustable rear peep and hadn't decided to do anything about it but with your recommendation I think I'll try to find one that'll fit that Williams Peep, and by the way...that rear sight rig is tight and has no wiggle, I am impressed with that, I'm always checking that at the bench and always bring a screwdriver out with me to tighten or make an adjustment...the windage and elevation has little set screws to keep it adjusted where you set it with the knobs and the side of the mount has a separate screw that locks the whole elevation part.

    From what your saying, I can assume that a good shooter with good ammo is getting one hole groups from a rig similar to this. That's one of my objectives. At the moment and with this Aguilla my goal is to be able to shoot the 3 targets and keep them all less than an inch consistently...that'd be my first milestone to reach.

    Thanks again for your comments, I'm enjoying the heck out of this little rifle.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drm50 View Post
    The first thing I would do is lose the bipod. Second put a good scope on the rifle and use it to determine the best ammo for that rifle. As bonus you will see what to expect from rifle shooting aperature sights. Above somebody stated to look through rear aperature. That is correct you should not be aware the rear is there. Like handgun you focus on front sight. One match I use to shoot at American Legion was 100’ and I reamed one of the loupe inserts for globe so it perfectly fit bullseye super tuned it put them right in the middle. One thing guys don’t like to admit is that their rifle isn’t capable of the degree of accuracy they are playing with. I quit shooting the local clubs because it became an arms race. Guys going whole hog and spending several thousand on scopes and rifles to win penny ante shoots.
    Thank you Drm50 for your comments, every little tip & trick helps.
    I'm the guy who doesn't want to get involved in the arms race either...I want to see just how well I can learn to play with what I brung to the table.
    I am especially enthusiastic about shooting well with a peep & globe, and I plan to tinker with that globe and peep also.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  11. #11
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    That peep & globe is my favorite setup for irons. While I have to admit I don't have them on any 22LR's, I do use them on some really high quality target air rifles. They take a bit of getting used to at first, but it looks like you are getting it mastered. That is some good shooting, congrats.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    OS OK, I do not know anyone with a Savage MKII FVT but the ammo I see you have been using is not going to get the job done. We tend to use European wonder rifles or heavily customized 52's and 37's and some others. Call up Champions Choice and see how many lots of whatever ammo you are interested in and buy 2 boxes of each lot (we ask for lots where they have at least one sealed case available, most of use shoot 2 cases a year or so). We even go so far as to take or ship our rifles to the Eley or Lapua USA test centers for ammo testing. We are pretty into it you can see. For the last several or more years I have been able to find lots of Eley black or Lapua Midas that give me less than 1 inch at 100 yards, 1 inch is the size of the X ring on the 100 yard target so thats our worst case. Those lots of ammo typically are quite able to shoot 5 shots inside the X ring of the 50 yard target we use. In any event you will see that even with the same label different lots can shoot very different group sizes.

    BTW slower ammo shoots smaller groups, try standard velocity at a minimum, the stuff I am shooting right now is about 1053 FPS so you can see its rather slow. Rim thickness sorting will get you nothing, I am afraid its a waste of time.

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Thanks ShooterAZ I'm having such a good time with the peep.
    40 years ago my other .22 rifles got put in the safe when the kids grew up and left home...back then they were a training tool and just fun when we'd go camping...all these years I've underestimated the lowly .22lr.
    "No more though!"
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  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    @ Hip's Ax Here in California, behind enemy lines...I hate to say it but we must have any ammo we buy shipped to our gunsmith.
    I haven't looked into what all that entails along what the extra cost will be but I will talk to him and see whether or not that will be possible and of course affordable.

    I don't expect this cheap little rifle to do wonders but I do expect to find out what it will do when I'm more qualified to operate it right.

    Thanks again, I appreciate your advise.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  15. #15
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    I'm a 22LR Bullseye pistol shooter, so I must agree with Hip's Ax on the use of high quality match grade ammo for match shooting. Eley surely gets it done, but for practice so does CCI SV with the right lot numbers. Other lesser expensive brands will occasionally shoot extremely well, once you find one that shoots well in your rifle. Unfortunately, right now sorta sucks for being able to find any "reasonably" priced 22LR. It's kind of a game of chance, but sometimes even cheap ammo can shoot lights out.

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    I was hoping to learn some inspection tips and ways of sorting that might help get the most out of the stuff I have.
    From time to time this Aguila really will stack them tight...prolly mostly luck I guess but I get excited when it happens.
    The best I've had so far has been the CCI 40 grain HP subsonic (1050fps) velocity but I've used all that and none is available at the shop.

    This ammo shortage is happening at a bad time for me but I'm thankful to have what I have and to be able to shoot almost every day.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  17. #17
    Boolit Master

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    You might try seperating them by weight, one of my shooting buddies did that years ago and claimed there was a difference. It was so labor intensive he never did it again but realize we shoot 10 or 12 boxes a weekend 14 weekends a year and thats just matches, we practice also.

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    I sorta tried that before and didn't know really how fine to divide them up...this was when I was shooting back in September I think...
    These may have been CCI Blazer?





    I was still an extreme novice with the sight system and didn't really know how to cipher what I did...I do know it's a labor of love to sit at a little digital scale and weigh them out. I guess only an old'Fat'Retired guy has the time for this?



    I was trying to compare any difference if there was any...I think my ability was the weak link in the chain here.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    The way the old time belly-shooters used the globe sight was to slip in an aperture that was just big enough to display a thin ring of white around the circular black bull. The eye has little trouble seeing that concentric ring. Those old guys said it was just as good as a scope, and the targets they could shoot pretty much proved it.

    They also claimed the prone position with proper sling adjustment was better than a bench and bags for evaluating ammunition.
    Cognitive Dissident

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
    Hick's Avatar
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    Peep and Globe is what I use on all my firearms except the M1 Garand. Takes a little time to get used to. After awhile you will tend to automatically center all the parts (circle in a circle with the target in the center). It might depend some on your vision. I have artificial lenses in both eyes (cataract surgery) which makes it so I cannot focus up close without glasses. Peep and globe I shoot without glasses because I can just center everything and see the target clearly.
    Hick: Iron sights!

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