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Thread: New to using a 'PEEP & GLOBE' at 50 yards...

  1. #761
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    That is excellent work. Very professional.

  2. #762
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Just saw a video about a very inexpensive barrel tuner you can purchase for about $3 at Menards. The guy is using it on a centerfire but it would work just the same on a rimfire.
    Go to youtube and search 2$ barrel tuner. There are at least two videos. During the second , he shoots long distance.

  3. #763
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    STARTING A NEW NODE SEARCH WITH THE METAL BUSHING MOUNT... I feel like I am starting all over here and in a sense...I am.
    This is the Torpedo set up as I envisioned it in the first place...using a solid machined steel bushing instead of any of the other 1/2 steps I've tried previously.

    Today I started with the tuner set at -1/16", this setting is actually flush with the inset crown...





    This next setting is flush with the end of the barrel...I didn't think to do a 5-shot group on the first setting but I start doing that on this setting. The individual spot-shots don't look bad, I expected a good 5-shot group here, I can't explain what happened...it wasn't me or the wind.







    This setting is 1/16" out past, proud of the barrel...





    And here, it is 1/8" proud of the barrel...





    Here is the whole card...



    You will notice the warmer shots, top left, the first cold & wet swabbed 'clean barrel' shot is very low there at 5:00...that seems to be normal.
    But...notice the 2 shots at spots numbered 11 & 19 highlighted in yellow. They resemble the cold barrel shot but the barrel was not left to cool on number 11 more than a maximum of 2 minutes as I reset the tuner for the 1/16" forward shots & took a picture of the tuner setting.
    Number 19 came between shots and the single spot shots don't take more than 45 seconds at most to change from spot to spot. Here again I get what looks like a cold barrel shot.
    I can't explain either of these but it's something that's on my mind and remains questionable.

    Remember, this ammo is Eley's Contact, $4.75/box of 50 rounds (even at our inflated prices today!)...this is cheap stuff and has proven itself over the chrono several times already, ES's of 70 with a 25 shot sample & higher on short samples and SD's of 16 on the 25 shot sample and greater for short samples.
    This is your typical 'minute of beer can ammo', I don't have any previous experience with this Contact...If any of you watching this thread have any experience with the Contact...please comment ASAP with your estimation of this ammo's performance. If you have them, post some pictures of what it can do with your firearm at 50 yards & what firearm you used? I would really appreciate the feedback.

    So far my estimation of the Contact is very low, it has proven itself over the chrono and those numbers tend to say it all...what I am about to say is that until I get some information to the contrary, I feel this tuner is making this crappo-ammo shoot and group pretty dang well. Those spots are 1.125" in outer diameter, that should give you an idea of how small some of these groups are.
    I am interested in what you fellas think from your observation of the testing so far?
    I am not ready to start adjusting the mercury level or adding weight to the tuner by means of lead weights, I have some other ideas in mind before I go there...one of them includes trying this tuner on the F-Class CZ452 with the Eley Match ammo. We have seen what that rifle can do with the Match rounds and a Harrel Tuner.
    A problem with that comparison is that I'll need another custom bushing, I hate to ask Harry again for help as he has a full to overflowing plate of 'Honey'Doo's' now, maybe later this summer I'll ask...or not.

    Tomorrow, weather permitting I intend to shoot this same test once again and see if I get the same results.

    Today's conditions...perfect!
    I have posted 10 pictures already so I can't show the picture of the conditions here in this post, I'll include that in the following post by itself...
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  4. #764
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    CONDITIONS FROM THE ABOVE POST...

    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  5. #765
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Finally got back to shooting the same settings... but this time I included as set of 5-shot groups with the tuner removed. I don't know why I haven't done this from the start.
    My estimation of this Eley Contact ammo has been pretty low after seeing the ES's & SD's and I have been referring to it as 'minute of beer can' ammo. I guess I should apologize to Eley for that low estimate because It is clearly 'minute of squirrel head'. That's not bad for cheap ammo.

    Here's the test today...



    It is evident the tuner is working and I think I will stick with it and try to tune in finer increments out around the 1/8" forward of the muzzle setting.

    Today's conditions...'perfection'...

    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  6. #766
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Impressive results.

  7. #767
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    A cursory look at settings on the long side of the muzzle... Something I haven't talked about is how 'coarse' these 1/16" of an inch settings are. 1/16" of an inch is .0625" and with the Harrel Tuner that is 62 consecutive clicks, 62 settings.
    We have seen that in just .025" of adjustments that there are as many as 10 potential nodes. On this particular test we find 3 acceptable nodes.



    What I am getting around to saying is that I think I am up against a modification to this 'Torpedo' so that I can adjust in much finer increments. If I used an 8 or 10-32thd screw for an adjustment screw, each revolution/360º turn of the screw would equal .03125". A half turn would be .015625", I think this would be adequate. I think this will provide more than the necessary 'fine tuning ability'. I think the mercury 'shock absorber' makes the nodes much wider in respect to the linear adjustment? Can't prove that just yet though...
    So...pretty soon I'll have to make a new version 2.0 of the 'Torpedo Tuner'.

    When I disassembled the tuner for yesterdays 'bare barrel' test of the Contact ammo, I had no way to insure that I could get it re-installed perfectly as it was. Today we see the 1/16" setting shooting much larger groups than it did before. That's why I think I need to make a 2.0 version.
    Here's this mornings results where I took a look at the settings on the long side of the muzzle, some settings we haven't seen before.



    Again, highlighted in yellow I had a couple of fliers that still defy an explanation on my part, all I have so far is the ES of this ammo and that it just may be that. I don't know that as a fact though.
    Even using a 32thd. screw means that 1/4 turn is equal to 7 of the single click adjustments on the Harrel. I don't want to jump into this too soon without 'mulling' this real good and getting some ideas from you fellas. This mod is something I can see coming in the future.

    Today's conditions...'almost perfection'...

    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  8. #768
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    KILLOUGH SHOOTING SPORTS has Eley Match .22lr in stock as of 30 minutes ago. https://www.killoughshootingsports.com/
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  9. #769
    Boolit Grand Master
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    https://www.mcmaster.com/fine-thread...ng~ultra-fine/

    OS OK these might work. They have inserts for the fine thread set screws.
    Don Verna


  10. #770
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    https://www.mcmaster.com/fine-thread...ng~ultra-fine/

    OS OK these might work. They have inserts for the fine thread set screws.
    Thanks Don...McMaster-Carr didn't even cross my mind, I'm always thinking about what I might have here in stock that'd work. I gotta expand my thinking...that's what Harry Tobin is always telling me too.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  11. #771
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Morning folks. I'm back! I see I have some catching up to do. I saw some nice groups up above. Very nice!
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  12. #772
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    Morning folks. I'm back! I see I have some catching up to do. I saw some nice groups up above. Very nice!
    It's about time! Glad you were just playing 'hooky' instead of having some trouble...
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  13. #773
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    You can't buck the wind! We have had a windy & unsettled week, still have several days of wind ahead...but...I wanted to get a comparison of the Eley Match with this tuner.
    I was being stubborn & that didn't help either. Finally my brother Manny came over and said, "let's go get some breakfast."
    That was all the excuse I needed to quit this 'failed attempt'..



    Here again, when I would pause for few minutes trying to get the same velocity of wind for each group, I'd get that 1'st shot down at 5 ~ 6:00 just like the warmer spot starts out. This must be the cooling of the barrel, I am at a loss to explain this.
    I did get a couple pretty good groups when the wind held around 2 mph but that was it...with Manny there it was a good time to quit.
    This is the next project, it may take a few days before I get a 'no wind' morning but I want to see the various tuner settings startig with the 'even with the crown' sdetting and moving out ahead of the crown & muzzle.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  14. #774
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    In both of these posts... New to using a 'PEEP & GLOBE' at 50 yards...
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...BE-at-50-yards
    & New to using a 'F-CLASS BR' at 50 yards...
    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...BR-at-50-yards ...we have 'spitballed' extensively about 'barrel movement'. I have searched the net high & low for slo-mo video of barrels actually moving when fired and not found anything useful.

    Thanks to Harry Tobin again we now have something to watch. He sent me this link...



    a couple weeks ago and I forgot to post it...here you will see a radical barrel movement.



    There has been no more progress testing the 'Torpedo Tuner' with Eley Match as I have had very windy weather here behind enemy lines due to the fires.
    Stay tuned...
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  15. #775
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    It's been a while...since I've posted any testing and it'd still be a while if I waited for a '0' wind day...here lately I haven't had any.

    So...here's what I have & here's what I think about it...



    I put all these little notations on the target to really go into details about the groups and fliers but on second thought, I think I'll just leave you'all to your own conclusions.
    I will say that I believe the '-1/16"' adjustment where the tuner is even with the crown is the best for this lot of ammo.
    I am surprised that I got such a good group with the bare barrel on target letter - 'B', looking back, I wish I had added another 5-shot group to that line.

    I shot warmer-spot 'W-1' and quickly went to spots 'A & B' ... the 6'th shot was the flier on spot-A...then they started to tighten up.
    Next...I reassembled the tuner on the barrel and set it to the -1/16'th setting and shot warmer-spot 'W-2' and quickly went to spots 'C & D'.

    On the W-1 spot, the barrel was cold...on W-2, the barrel had a little heat in it but it cooled sufficiently to make the first shot on the warmer spot look like a cold barrel shot.

    When I re-set the tuner to Flush with the muzzle, I think the barrel tried to cool but not enough to make it cold, hence the flier there. I think the heat from all the shots thus far has added to the barrel and I think the short pause for tuner re-setting after this doesn't affect the first shot of the group.
    That spitwad of an idea was going pretty well when I re-set the tuner the next two settings and didn't get any fliers on the first shot of the groups following...UNTIL...I got to target spot 'L' and that dang flier appeared again. For the life of me I can't remember if that was the first shot of that group. But it is there & I can't explain it.

    In the future, the next test will be looking at the 'bare barrel' vs the tuner set at -1/16"...to determine whether this tuner is really doing it's job or if I am just reading what I want to see & what I think into these test results?
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  16. #776
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    That rifle is really starting to come around. Your groups are getting much better than before. Always interesting to find out just how good a rifle can be.

  17. #777
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    That rifle is really starting to come around. Your groups are getting much better than before. Always interesting to find out just how good a rifle can be.
    Have a friend named Eli...another JarHead like myself, he owns Day at the Range.com & he measured this target up for me today...

    I guess I can officially call this Savage MKII a 1/2 MOA machine now? I think that's pretty good for a cheap entrance level rifle?



    I think it's time to put the peep & globe back on it and get back to the original configuration and learn to use it that way.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

  18. #778
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    I've always assumed that commodity rifles were limited by their commodity rifle chambering. Ain't necessarily so.
    Cognitive Dissident

  19. #779
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Now that you know what it can do and you have gotten your trigger and aiming so much better, it will be interesting to see what you can do with the peep and globe.

  20. #780
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uscra112 View Post
    I've always assumed that commodity rifles were limited by their commodity rifle chambering. Ain't necessarily so.
    We looked at this a long ways back in this post...I forget where but the chambers seem to be too long, they will not allow the cartridge to engage the rifling and center itself up on the bore.

    Another thing is the rifling quality. I have purposely kept those pictures under wraps to avoid going off tangent working with this cobbled together tuner. The rifling in this MKII is atrocious.
    This is typical for the CZ452...



    This is what it looks like in the Sav. MKII...notice the deep scratches across the top of the lands...the darkened steel in the bore. I have never got this bore to shine or show white steel...





    exiting the muzzle at the crown...these pictures look like something a gunsmith would show you to justify a new barrel. I turned the bore-scope radially to get as much of the irregular lands as possible...this looks to me like a train wreck!







    I think it was June of this year I got the bore-scope & I was dismayed over what I saw here in this bore. But after mulling on this for a while, I realized that this rifle has already shown me 3/8" ~ 1/2" groups many times.
    I decided to hold these pictures back to avoid having an argument come up on whether or not this rifle would even group at all.

    Between the long chamber and the condition of the bore..."I am astonished that this rifle will group as it does. What we see here is the opposite to what we have all been told about having a pristine bore in a BR rifle. This is another thing I can't explain!"
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check