Tungsten shot and a 410

[Geezer in NH]

Less volume just means a filler. Compressibility is streching IMHO it when every loading manual has about the same pressure showing. Look them up.

Solid lead balls don't set back at all.

[megasupermagnum]

Ok, I really had to dig to find as close to a 1:1 comparison as I could, as load data for different shot types is usually VERY different. I found a couple loads in the BPI Advantages manual between lead shot and ITX 13. I'm not a big fan of BPI data, but it does show why you can't just swap things with no thought.

410 Fiocchi 3" hull
Fiocchi 616 primer
16gr Alliant 410 powder
BX410 wad
9/16 oz lead shot
overshot card
fold crimp

1400 fps
11,500 psi


410 Fiocchi 3" hull
Fiocchi 616 primer
13.5 gr Alliant 410 powder
TPS 410 wad
9/16 oz ITX 13 shot
overshot card
fold crimp

1320 fps
13,000 psi


So as you can see, the ITX 13 shot, which is like a slightly denser version of Hevishot, and still very hard, with WAY less powder, with a lower velocity, had a significantly higher chamber pressure. This is shotgun reloading. Changing wads is a no-no. Primer changes are proven to have dramatic effects. you don't just go swapping things willy nilly, and saying 11/16 oz is 11/16 oz is a very dangerous statement. If a person used the lead shot load, but dumped in 9/16 oz of ITX 13, best case senario, it would have stuck the case so bad you would need a mallet to get it out.

[Geezer in NH]

Seems the wad is the big difference not the weight.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Yeah, kinda rich for my blood, but. To keep things in perspective, a guy I work with was pleased as punch after a dove shoot. He shot 2 full boxes of 1 1/4 oz 6s and got 4 doves. I don’t want to think of that $/ lb

That reminded me of my first Successful Dove Hunt where I got one bird with 2 boxes of shells,, which followed my first two Unsuccessful Dove Hunts where I got Zero Birds with 2 boxes of shells.

I had serious problems connecting mainly because I was shooting at birds that were too far away. Once I figured out what 20-25 yards looked like in the air, I started connecting.

The owner of the Avocado Orchard we shot in always got his limit with 10-12 shots! He was shooting a .410 SXS!

Randy

[rking22]

I was shooting my 410 couple days ago, 1/2 oz of lead9s at 1300. I have a couple traps that are RF remote, so I walk around the field for different angles and distances on the pairs. Anyway, I picked up several wads, a clay buster clear and one of the stiffer red dusters. Both showed serious impressions from the shot and some splits in the fingers. The other thing I noticed was the impressions on the sides, fingers, were as deep as in the base. The depth reduced to nothing towards the mouth of the wad. This shows that the inertia of the load causes the charge to expand against the wad and tighten into the forcing cone and barrel. Lead is lots softer than the tungsten so it deforms some. Think about stacking balls of play doh vs ball bearings, the play doh kinda stays stacked. That tungsten is putting some serious expansion pressure against the walls as it accelerates, more so than lead. I suspect that’s a big influence on the higher pressures seen with the really hard shot.
I had wondered about a “beer can” wrap inside the wad fingers as a “get by with” using tungsten, NOPE, not from what the wads I picked up looked like.

Randy, I generally get my limit from a box. If I’m shooting one of my 410s or 28s, I may not limit but my percentage is always better from being more choosy about the shots I take. Like 12 for 16 shots or so. Worst shoot I ever had was with a 12 gage I wanted to play with, had to shoot most of them twice cause I took shots that were too long!

[cwlongshot]

Well tge shot arrived

You was 100% correct. Dosent even say TSS ON CONTAINER... Says HEVI SHOT!!!

***!?! I coulda ordered hevishot but wanted TSS!!

Dosent really matter cause no wads.

Frrr

CW

[Cap'n Morgan]

Seems the wad is the big difference not the weight.

That's what I keep yapping about! Wads are probably the biggest game changer in shotshell reloading.

Notice the difference between the two wads MegaMag mentions:





The BX410 is compressible wad, obviously meant for lead shot, while the TPS410 is basically a container with sealing properties.
It's interesting that two so different wads (with two payloads of nearly the same volume) apparently add up to the same length,
but Im pretty sure the shot type could be swapped with nary a difference in the pressures.

[megasupermagnum]

So lead shot data with the TPS is very slim. I was only able to find a single 1-1 comparisons in the Advantages manual in 410. The first is the above mentioned BX410 compared to the TPS in identical loads

410 Cheddite 3" hull
Cheddite 209 primer
14 gr Alliant 410 powder
BX410 wad
1/2 oz lead shot
(2) overshot cards
fold crimp

1200 fps
7100 psi


410 Cheddite 3" hull
Cheddite 209 primer
15 gr Alliant 410 powder
TPS wad
1/2 oz lead shot
fold crimp

1240 fps
8900 psi

Now you may look at that and say the TPS wad has a higher powder listed, and that is true. If you look a little closer, you will see the pressure of the BX410 wad load is much less than the TPS load too. If both loads were at 15 gr of powder, the pressures would be very close. This discrepancy is one reason I hate BPI data. The 410 can be loaded to 14,000 psi. Why do they keep stopping so low?

Do not swap shot types. Equal weights do not equal the same pressure.

[southpaw]

Go to gobbler nation https://www.gobblernation.com/phpBB3/portal and look up hognutz or shooter. Buy the shot from them and they will supply you with the load data. You could even post a wanted to buy ad for things you need.

I can not help you with your shot size restriction but my stock 301 shoots the 9.5 tss very well. If I do my part 50 and under is a dead bird.

[megasupermagnum]

What are those two guys asking per pound for TSS?

[southpaw]

What are those two guys asking per pound for TSS?

Not sure what the price is now. I bought some back in February and I believe it was $45 a pound plus shipping. Best bet is to join and drop hawglips or shooter a message. There are others that sell it on there but they are the ones that I have bought from.