I had a .41 Redhawk. Thought it heavy enough that it may as well have a shoulder stock. But it would cut clover leafs with #410610 and 296. With a better shot behind it the group might have been a round hole.
Loved the .41 Blackhawk because the handling qualities suited me and it's a one handed Winchester.
R&D with bore riders in pursuit of that theory was loads of fun.
41 Magnum is a very good cartridge for just about everything. And while their are not many molds for it, the ones out there seem well thought out. I have never loaded the cartridge, but my buddy has, a lot, having both a Marlin and Blackhawk in the caliber.
Are two screw blackhawks large or small framed (eared or flattop?). In especially the smaller frame size I think 41 is a just swell. 357 is too small for such a large revolver. 44 magnum leaves too little steel around the chambers.
I was faced with a dilema not too long ago: I could get a 4.5" old 41 Mag eared blackhawk, or a new new model flattop in 44 special. I went the the special and I do not regret that. 44 special is probably even harder to buy loaded ammo for from a store, but these are both calibers that almost demand hand loading with cast boolits. I will say that 44 Special truly is...special in this regard.
I like my 41 magnum so much ... I made it my avatar ... I get to see it every time I visit the site or make a post !
Model 58 S&W 41 Magnum ... Is So Sweet !
Grips are Kim Ahrends , Retro Combat , dark red Cocobolo ... Makes It Even Sweeter !
Gary
Certified Cajun
Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables
" Let's Go Brandon !"
Good Cheer...what bullet mold is that?
It's an old NEI design that was altered to be a heavy bore rider in the Blackhawk.
Been thinking about maybe getting it hollow pointed as big as the alignment pin would allow but I'm not hunting with the .41 now.
Last edited by Good Cheer; 03-30-2022 at 05:36 AM.
My favorite cast bullet load for .44 mag is a 245 grain Keith style SWC at 1330 fps from a 4 5/8" Blackhawk. It carries 967 foot-pounds of energy the chono screens. My favorite cast load for .41 mag is a 215 grain Keith style SWC at 1430 fps from a 5" Redhawk. The KE for that load is 981 foot-pounds. Unless you plan to shoot buffalo I am not sure there is much difference between the two. I am a firm believer that "the bigger the bore the better" in hunting handguns but I don't think a deer can percieve the difference either.
The time to buy a 41 Blackhawk is when you find one.
NRA Benefactor Member NRA Golden Eagle
GC..thanks...I remember that mold now...very unique...
How much do each of the bullets weigh?
That flattop 44 special can be loaded to 25,000psi which is firmly on the back steps of decent 44 mag performance. I don't know what the 41 would actually gain over the 44 special loaded this way in the flattop.Originally Posted by curioushooter
Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6° 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.
In my experience-- we are often more impressed with what we shoot deer with... than the deer.. there is no real gain going from .410,411 to .429, 430.. as to weight animals do not know the difference between a 220 to 280 or 240 to 300-- my opinion
we do find the differences in recoil, energy, penetration in paper etc No idea about larger animals but still to me the same
Not saying the .41 is better... just not much difference.. going to the .45, 475, and various .500s there should be real and good differences.. I do remember shooting deer with a .54 cal mzl and 360 gr hps and how well they stood up to that.. they died like they were supposed to --I guess I was expecting a red mist and whimper ---I have had .45 Bhawk, .454 Super Rhawk.. and still have a .500 GNR-- but other wise nothing but .41sas always shoot what you like
Some people may not like to push a cartridge to nearly double what is is supposed to be at, so that is an advantage right there.
I'll put all 3 in Quickloads with a 6" barrel.
44 special with Lyman 429421 1.610" OAL, 16.2gr 2400, 25,000 psi, 1185 fps
41 magnum with Lyman 410426 1.680" OAL, 21.2gr H110, 36,000 psi, 1342 fps
44 magnum with Lyman 429421 1.680" OAL, 24.8gr H110, 36,000 psi, 1406 fps
'Nuff said, or should I push the magnums to the CIP standards?
I chambered a 45 Colt New Vaquero to 45 Schofield using a reamed 45ACP cylinder, QuickLoad got it to 1200fps with a LBT 250gr OWC over 21.5gr H110 pressure right at 23,000psi it is a joy to shoot, recoil is snappy but not sharp, and nowhere near a full house Ruger Only load in 45 Colt in a full size Vaquero. This will be my woodswalker and hunting load for whitetail deer in the mid Atlantic states. This is the upper end of "tier 2" pressures and it suits the medium framed Rugers to a Tee!
Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6° 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.
It wont gain much, which is why I got a 44 Special instead of 41 Mag. We all know a 45 Colt will outclass a 44 mag if loaded to the same strength limit of the chamber, as taught by Linebaugh. It is true that a 45 Colt cannot be loaded to the same pressure as a 44 Mag will in a given chamber because it has less steel surrounding it, but the 45 Colt needs less pressure to achieve the same muzzle energy, and larger diameter is better than smaller no how you slice it in terms of impact efficacy. The same deal exists between 41 Magnum and 44 Special. In both cases we are talking 20 caliber differences in diameter: .41 < .43 < .45.I don't know what the 41 would actually gain over the 44 special loaded this way in the flattop.
If you have six holes in the same sized cylinder the 41 mag will have more steel around it can can be loaded to a higher peak pressure, but the advantage of larger bore size, with more available surface area for the expanding gases to exert force upon, will result in the 44 special achieving the same muzzle energy as the 41 mag at much lower pressure, needing less cylinder wall to contain it. And the 44 special will hit the target with a bigger meplat/hollow point, and will carry a more massive bullet deeper owing to its greater momentum.
I've never had a 41 mag, but consulting the Lee manual I get: 210 grain lead bullet going 1400 FPS with 17.5 grains of 2400. Don't know the barrel length, but this seems ambitious to me. This is reported to be 33k PSI. This is just over 900 pound feet of energy.
In 44 special with a 260 grain H&G 503 bullet and 17 grains of 2400 you get 1250 FPS from a 5.5" barrel, and close to 1300 from a 6.5". I've personally verified this. This supposedly operates at 25k PSI. This is just over 900 pound feet of energy.
Same energy, same approximate charge of the same power...this makes sense.
Real word advantages and disadvantages:
44 Special has bigger diameter/more mass and will therefore form a wider and deeper hole (greater impact efficacy), wider selection of bullets, molds, and loads, was Elmer Keith's favored son, who birthed the very idea of magnum, handgun hunting, and the idea of a handgun being powerful. The son of 44 Special, the 44 Magnum, was wildly popular and this will ensure perpetual platform support as any 44 mag can handle any 44 special load. 44 Special and 44 magnum are like Isaac and Jacob.
41 Magnum has a slightly greater velocity, so will have slightly greater effective range. It can be bought off the shelf as loaded ammo. No SAMMI compliance worries. It was also a son of Elmer Keith's, but more akin to an unpopular child constantly in danger of being forgotten and with precious little platform support. If Starline didn't rescue the 41, like God rescuing Ishmael in the desert, it may have already been rendered totally obsolescent. Currently, I do not believe ANYONE is making revolvers in 41 Mag (while they are in such odd cartridges for a revolver as 10mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP or truly insane cartridges like 460 and 500 magnums) while 44 special is being produced by multiple companies currently, except oddly, S&W. 44 Mag is in no danger of obsolescence either, and one can always cut down one of those cases for a 44 special.
Last edited by curioushooter; 03-30-2022 at 02:28 PM.
You doubt you can see 1400 fps from a 210gr in 41 magnum, really? Buffalo Bore's 210gr does 1450 fps... in a 4" revolver.
"It was also a son of Elmer Keith's, but more akin to an unpopular child constantly in danger of being forgotten and with precious little platform support. If Starline didn't rescue the 41, like God rescuing Ishmael in the desert, it may have already been rendered totally obsolescent."
You just said that. Let that sink in.
With my heavy side scrap alloy 295 grains. Hopefully this year I take time out to do tests in the single shot rifle rebored to .41.
I didn't get it rebored for hunting but if I do it'll do.
Thanks... I have a Mountain Mold that makes a nice LBT style bullet that runs right at 300+- grains also... 19.0 grains of H110 runs 1250 from a 6" barrel.
As to no one making .41 Magnums anymore, Ruger still lists several, S&W one and Freedom Arms two along with Henry making four variations of their leverguns...but it is sparse compared to .44 Magnum and always has been.
I have a 250 grain load that clocks at 1444 fps from a 6" revolver. Accurate 41-250L with 22.0 grains of H110...a 300 Mountain Mold that clocks 1267... If they can't kill anything that walks it's time to go get a rifle...
Well of course there are. There are WAY more 41 magnum guns and ammo than 44 special, always have been. Nobody outside of castboolits gives a hoot about 44 special.
Makes for a good laugh though. After reading that post again, a lot of it I believe is satire.
There's been more 41mag ammo regularly stocked in the stores I frequent than 44mag, or 44special. Been that way for years. Believe it or not, some places its as easy to walk in and find as what range-grade 45acp is. Whether there just happens to be a significant number of 41 shooters in this neck'a the woods, or what, I don't know. But it's definitely the 44mag that's become hard to find & buy ammo for.
If I was counting on factory ammo to feed my guns, I guarantee the 44 would be the one starving.
"Buffalo Bore" Boutique loaders should be ignored for comparison purposes.
I don't doubt that 41 mag can match, in ENERGY, a Keith Load of 44 Special. But it falls short in basically every way except maybe buying off the shelf ammo for hunting. You can certainly get 44 special SAMMI spec stuff for self defense, probably more of it than 41 Mag too.
I don't recall ever seeing 41 magnum on a shelf, not that I even buy ammo anymore, so I am probably not a good judge. Always saw 45 Colt and 44 mag. See some defense load of 44 Special with some frequency. The problem with 41 is that it is totally unique. It is definitely in danger of extinction even for handloaders. Something that 44 special is not and never will be. S&W dropped the Model 57 ages ago. Did they ever re-issue it like the did the 29, 24, 25? Did they even make a 657? Occasionally you'll find an old model 58 (which lacks adjustable sights) (I think some LE orgs adopted them), but there are way, way more Model 24s and 624s, not to mention 29s and 629s. Look 41 mag is cool, but it is definitely the lost child in the family. They are still making 44 RUSSIAN, the great granddaddy of them all. Uberti is making revolvers (gorgeous in fact) in 44 Russian presently. I found out that a couple years ago Charter Arms made a bulldog in 41 mag, no doubt realizing what I did that something strong enough for 44 special can handle 41 magnum. Did ruger ever make a GP in 41, they have them in 44 special?
In the final reckoning 41 magnum was a brilliant solution to a problem nobody had. Keith and Jordan more or less invented the problem in their own minds, and this is despite their wild successes with the greater magnum and lesser magnum respectively. The last revolver Keith used was a model 29 in 44 mag, but downloaded to something about as potent as his old Keith load in 44 special. He made no secret of this. In his last major article (I am aware of) in Gun & Ammo January 1979 summarizing his favorite loads and entire career in handloading, he mentions 41 mag, rather proudly, and gives his loads, which are still the best probably. But it covers about 10% of the article. 357 and 44s get most of the article, and 45 colt and auto rim get about as much mention as 41. Keith's serious load for 41 mag is a real screamer: 20 grains of 2400 pushing a 210! This is well above what Alliant's max loads. From day 1 41 with full power was recognized as too much for law enforcement purposes. The standard 41 magnum LE load was 210 at 1000 FPS. This is equivalent in energy (and recoil) to a SAMMI spec 44 Special load, yet worse in terminal efficacy. I honestly wonder why they didn't just use 44 special loaded with a 210 grain bullet at 1000 FPS!
41 sort of reminds me of 10mm. There was a perception that 35 caliber wasn't big enough, but 45 was too big, so they sort of split the difference between them (like with the 41). 10mm is an impressive caliber but at the end of the day it is not more effective or easier to shoot than the old 45. And it is not as compact as the 9mm. In fact, they ended up cutting it down and lowering the charge so it could be crammed into smaller pistols and have less recoil. And it had its couple years in the sun before it was mostly abandoned, and is currently enjoying a renaissance. 10 years ago when I was in the throes of 10mm inflenza, you had either a 10mm S&W 3rd gen, a tangfoglio, a delta elite, or a 610. Double Tap was about the only factory ammo out there. But at least you could count on there being plenty of bullets and molds because of 40 short and weak. Today 9mm reins supreme again, as bullet performance has improved its prospects. Lets not forget that even Cooper, like Keith, abandoned the 10mm, and went back to his previous fixation, the 45 which is what he carried till his end.
For my purposes even the 44 Special Keith load is too much. My favorite loads are just under 1100 FPS with the H&G503 from MP Molds.
I have spent my whole life in Illinois, Ohio, and Indiana. In this entire time I've encountered exactly ONE 41 Magnum Marlin 1894, which was priced very favorably because of the caliber (oh for the days where you could pick up an 1894 for $250...they weren't that long ago). It was for this reason that my friend (who like 41, having 41 Action Express pistols and whatnot) bought it after I tipped him off. The seller (a gun show guy) was very pleased I was able to broker this deal as he was tired of moving that marlin around. It remains the only 41 magnum (I've never seen a revolver in 41 magnum, despite me almost buying one off GunBroker a few years ago) I've seen in real life. Oddly my friend prefers to paper patch 40 caliber bullets up to 41 for this rifle. He bought starline cases for it. I've seen more 44 magnum Marlins in a single restaurant at lunchtime in deer season than I've seen 41 anything. I process deer seasonally (to be fair, my wife does more of the processing than I do). Recovered countless roundballs, slugs of 12, 16, 20, gauge and 410, muzzloader bullets of every description from round balls to shuttlecocks to new fangled JHP sabot projectiles, even an all copper rifle bullet. 357, 44, and 45 JHPs abound. Now I'm seeing a lot of rifle bullets, and sadly fewer cast boolits than before (they mostly go through, and I think younger folks are too impatient to cast). I've even found old broadheads surrounded by scar tissue! I wound't be surprised if I find flint arrowhead in deer before I find a 41 bullet. Hoosiers can be weird!There are WAY more 41 magnum guns and ammo than 44 special, always have been. Nobody outside of castboolits gives a hoot about 44 special.
Makes for a good laugh though. After reading that post again, a lot of it I believe is satire.
Hey, Henry makes a 41 magnum rifle though. That's good news. I know it was not the first caliber that came out though. 44 and 357 and 45 were. I even think it was in 410 before 41.
I have no doubt that 41 will make an excellent cartridge to play around with. It is very well thought out. And a good size for whitetail and smaller. It's in good company, almost slavish in it's constitution to its relatives.
Last edited by curioushooter; 04-01-2022 at 02:19 PM.
Boy oh boy. You had best just leave this thread, and do a little research first. You are welcome to your opinions on 44 special, but you are so far off base on 41 magnum it isn't even funny. The model 57 is STILL MADE by S&W. I love 45 ACP, it's my favorite semi-auto caliber. It is close, but I will fully admit 10mm auto is a more effective round.
Go out, hunt with them. I hunt with them all, even the little guys like 327 and 357. Nothing you can do in 44 special that isn't inside of a 44 magnum handgun can match what a 41 magnum will do on animals. My dad's choice of arm was always a model 57 with 6" barrel. Federals plain old 210 gr hollow point leaves that gun at close to 1400 fps. No, your h&g 503 at 1100 fps does not compare to that. It would penetrate more, except I've never seen a 41 magnum that did not pass through.
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