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Thread: My 22 Rifles at the Range

  1. #41
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    I had repaired the front sight of an old Win. 67-A with a small chunk-O-wire and epoxy glue, left in picture. It still wasn't tall enough and was not a good solution that would last very long.



    Then I found one available online, it had a gold looking front end that glared in the sunlight so I made a shroud from a section of a .308W case.



    With that rifle I used an air soft BB on the stock to get the same cheek weld & distance off the rear sight.



    Trying to use those iron sights and Federal ammo @ 50 yards, it was pretty frustrating but the .22lr bug had bitten by this time so I went looking for a real target rifle that was affordable.

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  2. #42
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    I'm mostly trying bedding this range session. My group patterns make me wonder whether it is me or the rifle or the ammo. Well, I'll give them a go tomorrow at the range and see what results I get. Hopefully I can get just one rifle to shoot consistently well.

    My 'solution' was a 'in a hurry git 'er done now' thing just so I can test the rifle. The way the glue sits it should be reasonably strong but I was still thinking of a shroud for both knock protection and sunlight glare. So thanks for the 308 case idea.

    My longer term idea is to make a front sight with pin in a tube attached to barrel tube clamp. Not having a mill means I will have to make in sections and join them and again, I don't have TIG or gas welding, so I'm thinking of screwing things together but that again requires accurate drilling in a mill. I'll figure something.

    I once mounted a scope base that I had made to a rifle entirely with epoxy putty. That rifle is still shooting and has survived being handled by a ten year old who is now seventeen and too long for the rifle. Point is, there are glues and putties that compensate for lack of proper tools. I've been known to attach suppressors with LocTite - the problem with that is getting them off again. This one is threaded on and is over barrel but it's assembled with LocTite.



    My aim at the moment is to see just what I can achieve with what I've got. I'm finding the two Remingtons are really great rifles to shoot with so I plan to play with them for a while. I do feel challenged to shoot with open sights so my idea is to do that with the 511 and look into more appropriate sights for the 510. But being a superannuant who has as of yesterday, stopped working, I am planning on building those appropriate sights. That's my second challenge.

    I have a simple plan for the rear sight (we'll see how that works out in reality) and I'm forming a plan for the front sight, thanks to Forest r for the ideas.

    P.S. I'm planning on getting hold of that rifle to take to the range to see just what it can do. It was deadly in my hands as well as in my great nephew's hands. That stock finish was weeks of linseed oil and hand rubbing. My nephew in law who actually did most of the applying didn't believe me when I told him he must dampen the stock after fine sanding then re-sand until the fur stops standing up, so the finish was actually a fail. One can no longer lift the fur with water once oil has been applied. But I had a stroke of genius and rubbed it down with fine steel wool and got the surface smooth but even then it was a mission. Then nephew in law claimed the credit!
    Last edited by 303Guy; 10-30-2020 at 02:27 PM.
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  3. #43
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    OK so I made that shroud. I chose a piece of steel tube that would more or less place the blade tip central. If it isn't central, I can't notice it.

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    I did dress the blade a bit before fitting the shroud.



    Can someone tell me what in heck those bright dots are fore? They only come on in the sunlight when I don't need them plus they blind me!



    They're not too distracting in the shade though so I might not black them out.



    Here the camera is focusing on the rear sight but the front blade is still clearly visible. I focus on the target which with my eyes, leaves the front blade clear and sharp in the notch.

    So, ready for the range tomorrow. If you folks don't hear from me you'll know it went badly.

    Nah! I'll let y'all know either way.
    Last edited by 303Guy; 10-30-2020 at 04:46 PM.
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  4. #44
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    OK so the range trip had mixed results. The 512 which shot its best group with CCI Mini Mags last session did a turn around.

    Previous trip
    This trip.
    That lonely shot was the first shot after the Mini Mags.

    Not only that but a few groups backs with other brands this trip


    The Mini Mags opened up and the CCI HP sub-sonics tightened up! That was a new tray of subs though but a tray from the same order. I haven't checked for lot difference. The Mini Mags were all from the same tray.

    The 512 is scoped and has very fine cross hairs so the only shooter error would be about a boolit width.
    Last edited by 303Guy; 11-01-2020 at 01:25 AM.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

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  5. #45
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Now for the report back on the 510. The sights themselves are great. The vertical alignment is about right, depending on which ammo but within elevation adjustment range. I chose not to carry on with it because it is actually well bore sighted. I figured that I should check the bedding again before doing anything else. I did note that the POI didn't change from ammo type to type, unlike the free floated barrel.



    Then the 511. The front sight works great too. Not so much its shooting. I'm quite confident that the lousy results were not all my aiming.

    Here is a comparison of CCI sub-sonics and Mini Mags. I was actually able to aim at the orange square.


    This is only 25m, which is why I can see the tiny square. I think it shows actual size. It does on my screen anyway. That orange square is 3/8" (9.5mm).
    Last edited by 303Guy; 11-01-2020 at 02:54 AM.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  6. #46
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Looks like things are starting to come together for you.

  7. #47
    Boolit Master
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    303guy, My Voere would not group even after bedding so I actually put a rear hold down screw in and that sorted the problem, I sold that rifle to a farmer mate who still uses it today. I just remembered I had another Voere when I was a young lad and it shot well and was fitted with a suppressor as well, back when they were legal over here. Regards Stephen

  8. #48
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    I'm going to see about fitting a rear screw. I didn't get to test the Voere yesterday as I had assembled the trigger incorrectly and it would not fire reliably. In my bedding operation I managed to get some epoxy around the mounting screw and couldn't get it out to correct the trigger, so I left it home. Later I applied my lady's hair dryer and loosened the screw and fixed the trigger. I'll shoot it as it is next range trip before doing the rear screw. I'm looking at doing rear screws on the 510 and 511 too. I've mentioned that I did a rear screw on my 512 that I had forgotten about.

    The 510 has a sling swivel screw hole on the fore-end which made me think of fitting an adjustable fore-end pressure method. What makes me think along those lines is that with its current bedding on the front of the fore-end, there seems to be no sensitivity to ammo change. I mean, changing from mini mags to sub-sonics and the group doesn't shift much at all. So by going with an adjustable pressure point, I can release it altogether if it doesn't work.
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  9. #49
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    So I went to the range today. I have to say - it was a good day!

    Firstly and very importantly - my dad's 22 Mauser shot quite well! I found a scope that allowed the bolt to operate but does not allow bolt removal but who cares - I'm not going to clean the bore much. The donor rifle doesn't get used much anyway and should in any case have open sights. Eley Standard ammo gave me the best group of the ammo's I tested today.

    Importantly, I have proved to myself that I can shoot reasonably well with open sights! I did get vertical stringing which I expected because I was unable to maintain a consistent elevation picture on the sight and target. Aperture sights still to come but not on this rifle. This one is my open sight challenge. The rifle destined for the aperture sights, the 510, shot like the proverbial - well, not very well - with open sights. Not sure if that was the sights and my eyes or the rifle itself. I'll put that rifle aside until the aperture is fitted, which will hopefully be soon.

    I have a half decent rest arrangement which I am too embarrassed to show but with it, I find I am able to aim reasonably well but definitely need a sand bag under the butt. Even so, I am confident my aiming error with a scope is less than the actual groups I got. Apart from the flinch fire when the guy next to me let off his 7 mm mag with muzzle break just as I was about to fire! Different ammo gave different groups which supports my claim.

    Most important though is that I had fun!

    On the downside, I heard today that there is a vocal group of activists in my country determined to take away our guns!
    I will be joining in on the protests and submissions! One would think that if someone doesn't like guns they would simply not own any!
    Last edited by 303Guy; 03-27-2021 at 08:53 PM.
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  10. #50
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Here is the group that gives me hope. Two shots out there on their own but the rest in a vertical string - 8 of them.



    So my challenge is to tighten up the vertical component.

    This is the scoped 512 with Geco Rifle ammo. Left hand target first shot from clean barrel lies low and to the right. The right hand target is a repeat to double check. Some of the 'spread' would very likely be me. I could see some unsteadiness in the rifle hold and the rifle has a terrible stiff trigger.



    As fine as the crosshair is, it still completely covers the center dot although I can actually aim at the dot. So, the rifle ammo combination looks good. I'm going to leave the trigger as is because it forces me to control the trigger-sight picture and learn trigger control.

    My Toz-17 shot quite well too, not as good even with its better trigger but I found the reticle was turning in the scope so maybe that reduced the accuracy. We'll see after I have re-aligned it and locked it. The same thing happened with the 512's scope many years ago and it has been fine since then. I will of course lose the nitrogen if it was actually filled with nitrogen in the first place like they claim.
    Last edited by 303Guy; 03-27-2021 at 09:29 PM.
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forrest r View Post
    Don't know what you do when you clean your 22lr rifles. When I get a used/new to me rimfire firearm I take it to the range and run a box of 50 rounds thru it over a chronograph on a 25yd target. Then I

    Check the crown, should be an even star pattern on the muzzle, if not I touch it up.
    Run a couple oiled patches down the bbl and then a tight patch feeling for either loose spots or constrictions. You want to feel an even pressure the whole way down the bbl to the last +/- 2" of bbl then you want it to get tight from there to the end. If there isn't a constriction at the end of the bbl make one by using cleaning solvents on a tight patch from the chamber end of the bbl do long strokes ending +/- 2" from the muzzle. After 3 or 4 range outing there will be constriction in the end of the bbl.
    I clean the leade area of the chamber with a brush & keep that area clean.
    I take the firearm back to the range and do another 50 rounds over a chronograph checking accuracy @ the 25yd line.
    Finely I take the bolt down and give it a good cleaning, check the fp face & side wear/wear marks and then oil/grease everything (I use a dry bicycle chain lube) and put it back together. Then another trip to the range for 50 rounds on the 25yd line over a chronograph.

    Hopefully everything stayed the same thru the process, this tells me that this is all the firearm can do mechanically and then I start looking for different ammo's that firearm likes. What I have found more often then not fliers come from inconsistent ignition/fp hits, either from the ammo itself or from the firearm. A chronograph will pick up on this.
    Wow thanks for that instruction. A true veteran shooter!

  12. #52
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Perhaps I should set up my chrono at the range. I could go there on a range busy bee day to make some set up arrangement. I should be going to the busy bee days anyway but have had too much other stuff going on. Thinking on it right now, I could do something after the 25m sight in range closes on a range day.
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  13. #53
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by OS OK View Post
    I found an old thread in the archive explaining the 'peep & globe' sight system & giving many helpful hints...
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ep-sight/page2

    The part I'm wrestling with is keeping focused on the front globe instead of concentrating on centering the target in the globe.
    The post said that the eye naturally wants to center the target in the globe but...'loosing that shot' with a 'fuzzy target' is almost beyond my doing without a quick peek at that target.

    Do you have any suggestions?
    From my high school competition days, use a ring in the front sight that is completely filled by the target. You look at the front sight and if you see anything but black do not send it. The better you become at holding the more you can open up the front sight circle. If you are near perfect you can make it so that only a perfect hold will keep it all black. That is why from sight rings come in so many diameters.
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  14. #54
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    I don’t fire Lapp as most of my chambers are loose enough already.
    I have been known to make a Lapp and do a light lapping to even out some of the jaggery rough spots and hopefully do a choked bore if I can.
    But I do it in stages as I really only get one good go at it.

    I don’t shoot competition or ibr benchrest so I can resort to things like trying to bump up the cases to the chamber.
    I have had success in one gun by finger lubing the case with some bw/vas lube.
    This will make it a thou or so thicker and I’m not sure if it’s the extra lube or because the case is a bit thicker and aligns the case more concentric to the bore.
    But it has helped crank in the wild flyers at least.

    I bedded my latest rifle at the back and front Knox form and let the single screw tighten it from the middle instead of two screws and pillars.

    Some guns work well with a bit of forearm tuning.
    I have made two round headed screws that you can adjust up on an angle through the forewood like a on the bottom sides of the barrel.
    Only need touching and slight pressure usually.

    Real old school stuff but works.

  15. #55
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    I added a second mounting screw to my 512 at the rear f the action. On either the 510 or 511 I put a packer under the rear of the action so as to give pressure on the fore-end front while the chamber area is bedded firmly. It seems to work OK. It's less sensitive to ammo changes as far as POI goes. Your idea of bedding with two points and the screw in the middle is a good one. I shall give it a try.
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  16. #56
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    So 22 ammo has hit our shelves! Well, there always was ammo but CCI was scarce. Now there's a whole range of CCI and Federal ammo. At twice the normal price!

    I do see some interesting stuff though, 22 shorts, 22 short target, 22 long, SK (at a reasonable price) and Velocitor 40gr HP 1435fps! Not cheap but I would like to try some of that and see how it shoots. It would stay supersonic out to 100yds so might be accurate that far. Anyway, I won't be able to pick up anything before my range day on Sunday.
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  17. #57
    Boolit Master
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    Now now don’t say that !
    The local, fleecers told me they are getting more ammo in and it will be cheaper.
    As if ever!

  18. #58
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    European ammo seems cheaper. Aguila hasn't changed.

    Well, I have fitted a scope on my 510 so that I can establish what the rifle and ammo can do before I fit the aperture sight. The scope is not too bad and at full 12X I can focus the target and the cross-hair. In fact, I can aim at a bullet hole. So we'll see how I do with it on Sunday. I have a NZ$26, 50 round pack of Fiocchi OFFICIAL 300 match ammo to try out in it, among other 'higher grade' stuff.



    I did get a lower pair of rings which I put on.
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  19. #59
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    European ammo seems cheaper. Aguila hasn't changed.

    Well, I have fitted a scope on my 510 so that I can establish what the rifle and ammo can do before I fit the aperture sight. The scope is not too bad and at full 12X I can focus the target and the cross-hair. In fact, I can aim at a bullet hole. So we'll see how I do with it on Sunday. I have a NZ$26, 50 round pack of Fiocchi OFFICIAL 300 match ammo to try out in it, among other 'higher grade' stuff.



    I did get a lower pair of rings which I put on.
    303guy...... How did you attach the rail to the receiver of that rifle?
    I own some of the 510-512 series rifles and would love to have scopes on them if it is relatively easy to do.
    Details please?

  20. #60
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Epoxy glue.

    This single shot has an epoxy putty molding between the base and the rifle.


    This one has been on for 8 years

    My 512 is glued too but that has a mating base so the glue bond is very strong.

    This is the 512 showing the mating base. Been in place for 40 years.


    I did not do a permanent job on the 510 because it will be coming off once I have the accuracy baseline. The idea is that heat from a hot air gun will soften the epoxy so it can be removed without trace. It's a picatinny rail so it does not have a large surface area held by the epoxy. To make it permanent, I would screw and glue it onto a curved metal piece which would then mate with the receiver. If I find I can't shoot well enough with the 511 using open sights then I'll go that route with it.

    I epoxied a front sight on the 510 then when I wanted to remove it I thought a crack with a mallet would do it. Well, it took quite a crack and took some of the bluing off! I'll warm it up next time.

    I also glued a scope base onto a springer airgun. Again, mated to fit the cylinder. Never came off. I also have a scope glued onto a 303 Brit. I'm about to take it off now that it's served it's purpose testing. I'll be fitting open sights.
    Last edited by 303Guy; 04-09-2021 at 05:56 AM.
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    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check