.380 ACP reloading

[stargzer]

I want to start reloading for .380 ACP. I've been reading a old(copyright 1978)book "Handloading for Handguns" by Maj. George C. Nonte, Jr. He has a Die Interchangeablity Table on page 265. It list the .38 Special die as compatible for reloading the .380 ACP. Anyone try this or should I spend the money for new dies in .380 ACP? I already have die set for .38/357 Mag. What say you?

Stargzer
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member

[Bullshop]

I use 9mm.
BIC/BS

[stargzer]

I use 9mm.
BIC/BS

You are using 9mm dies for your 380 ACP? Instead of the 38 special? In the same Table of Interchangability it also list the .38 ACP. Are the .380 ACP and .38 ACP not the same?

Stargzer
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member

[Bullshop]

Ok now we are getting into a can of worms. This will eventually lead to the 38 super.
Lets try to break it down.
The 380acp is nothing more than a 9mm (para) short. Brass for the 380 can be made from 9mm. The 38 acp and 38 super are nothing more than a 9mm long.
The 38 acp and 38 super are the same cartridge but not the same loading. The 38 acp was loaded to much lower pressure and chambered insome weaker design guns that will not handle the super loading, for long!
All 380, 9mm, 38 acp, and 38 super can be loaded with 9mm para dies.
Can be loaded yes but all can not be crimped. The short guy in the bunch the 380 is too short to reach the crimp sholder in a 9mm die.
No if using a 38 special die it may not offer enough bullet pull for .356" diameter bullets but if you load .357" to .358" boolits as I do should be OK.
Your 38 special will have the same issue though with crimp for the shorter 380 and 9mm cases.
Hope I got that all right. If not somebody let me know and I will try again.
BIC/BS

[Echo]

+1 for Bullshop.

[stargzer]

Thanks Bullshop for that information. I have some Lee Dies for 9mm So, I guess I will need to get a 380 ACP crimping die.

Stargzer
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member

[Spud]

Thanks Bullshop for that information. I have some Lee Dies for 9mm So, I guess I will need to get a 380 ACP crimping die.

Stargzer
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member

You can (possibly)seat bullets in 380's with 9mm dies but that's about it. Can't use the sizer, no way. 9mm's are a tapered case with a larger base than 380ACP's. 380's are straight-walled. And if you want to make 380's out of 9mmP's you better have a 20-ton press (at least)! I DO use a 9mmP taper crimp die for 380ACP's with success, however.

[Will]

I had trouble with the 380 not getting enough crimp to remove the bell which caused feeding problems. I found that I can adjust my FL sizing die so that the loaded round enters just enough to produce a perfect taper crimp.

[stargzer]

You can (possibly)seat bullets in 380's with 9mm dies but that's about it. Can't use the sizer, no way. 9mm's are a tapered case with a larger base than 380ACP's. 380's are straight-walled. And if you want to make 380's out of 9mmP's you better have a 20-ton press (at least)! I DO use a 9mmP taper crimp die for 380ACP's with success, however.

Thanks Spud, You are absolutely correct!!! Upon checking the specs for the 380 ACP and the 9mm Para. There is a big enough difference to possibly cause concern. Yes, 380 brass is Straight wall and 9mm is taper.

380 ACP case mouth width is 0.373 in. and base is 0.374

9mm Para case mouth width is 0.380 in. and base is 0.3926 in.

Also, checking the sizer for 38 special is much closer (0.379 in) for sizing 380 ACP brass, as mentioned in an earlier post.

So, I guess now I could use my 38 Spc Sizer and the 9mm seating and crimp dies for the 380 ACP. Does that sound about right?
Stargzer
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member

[Spud]

So, I guess now I could use my 38 Spc Sizer and the 9mm seating and crimp dies for the 380 ACP. Does that sound about right?
Stargzer
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member

You can try them to see if they size tight enough. If not, you can get cheap-o 380 dies from LEE for probably under 30 bucks shipped. For crimping I've used Will's idea of gutting the sizer die for taper crimping. On another note, I use a gutted 308 Win die for neck-sizing '06 brass. Lotta things a guy can do with some thought.

[Bullshop]

Spud
How can that be? All we have for both is 9mm para dies and we load and shoot 380's with no problems whatever. I guess ignorance is bliss.
Come to think of it we are using a 9mm carbide sizer. No way a carbo sizer with just a ring of carbo at the mouth of the die is going to size taper to a case. Weather 9mm or 380 acp when they pass through that die they are straight. Right or wrong?
BIC/BS

[Spud]

I say if it works for you go for it, but there ain't no way a 380 case will be full length sized in a 9MM die, carbide or no. The dia at the carbide "button" is going to be @.388" whereas a 380 case needs to be sized to @.374" or so, at the base. Eventually there could be chambering probs with the 380's because the portion above the extractor groove is not being sized. Basically, all you are doing is sizing the portion that holds the bullet. Therefore, my recommendation to the OP is to at least get the 380 sizer die, carbide preferred. Adios.

[DanWalker]

So, that being the case, can I reload 9mm ammo with 380 dies?

[Spud]

So, that being the case, can I reload 9mm ammo with 380 dies?

Report back how your 9's look after you size 'em in the 380 die! Oh, do that after you repair the handle on your press.

[DanWalker]

So I guess the answer is no?

[Spud]

So I guess the answer is no?

Yes, the answer IS no. Thought you were pullin' our leg, Dan, you being a Boolit Master and all. Wasn't making light of your post. One of the deficiencies of these boards. Actually, with some brands (of dies) you might be able to seat boolits, maybe not. Same with the expander die. NO resizing, though.

[DanWalker]

Nope, no leg pullin here.
I've never reloaded 9mm, and JUST started loading 380's this summer when my wife gave me a bersa 380 for a fathers day present.
And as far as being a boolit MASTER....I think that has more to do with me asking lots of questions and being awful gabby too. I'm no great repository of knowledge. I consider myself an eternal student of the gun and all aspects of reloading and shooting.

[Spud]

Well I'm no expert either, just happen to know a little about 380's and 9's. My wife has a Colt Gov't 380 we got in the early 90's. It's fun to shoot it, but they're a little puny for carry, IMO. I cast the Lee 102 gr RN bullet for it. Where in Wyo. are you. When we left the PRKalif. four years ago we almost decided on Lander for retirement. Loved that town, but the reports of 40 below winter temps dissuaded us of that! Those Bersa pistols are neat little guns. Have fun. Adios.

[9.3X62AL]

The 380 ACP and 9 x 19 Luger are about as different as two chamberings of the same diameter can be. I'm glad that got straightened out.

I'm currently out of the 380 ACP business, but still stuff 9mm Makarov brass. After getting a Mak, the 380 is kinda superfluous. Still do 32 ACP, though. Go figure.

[stargzer]

The 380acp is nothing more than a 9mm (para) short. Brass for the 380 can be made from 9mm. The 38 acp and 38 super are nothing more than a 9mm long.

BIC/BS

The dimensions for the 9mm Para are too different from the .380 ACP, so I do not think you can make 380 brass from 9mm para brass. Since the 9mm is a tapered case and the 380 is almost a straight wall case. Now as far as the 38 ACP and Super, I think yes they are a 9mm only longer.

Stargzer
USAF Retired
NRA Life Member