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Thread: Remington 510 Target Master

  1. #141
    Boolit Master
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    Sometimes we have to struggle before we get to the pace we want to be. I believe any goal we may have is worth the effort it takes to get reach it. This includes anything we wish to accomplish in life, not just shooting. We would never learn anything without problems and putting forth the effort to solve them. my .02 anyway, james

  2. #142
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    This morning I decided to bed the action. I discovered the the new rear screw was loose! I had tightened it - so I'm guessing that there must have been some debris between the action and the stock. I'm hoping that is what caused the poor grouping. It would explain why the sighting in shots grouped better. So now it's bedded and ready for the next range session.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  3. #143
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    I got to take the 510 to the range today. What can I say?

    Yup. It came together. On my way out I thought I would at least clean out the chamber area with a bronze brush, even though the bore looked clean and shiny with just a few powder granules in it. Well, a grey dust came out the breach so I scrubbed the whole bore and what a grey dust cloud! So I gave it a good scrub with Hoppe's, fully expecting to shoot out half a box of ammo to condition the bore. But no, after five sighting in shots, it shot pretty good with a scope. I should add that I now have to wear reading glasses to focus both the target and cross hairs at the same time. My eyes just aren't as young as they once were.

    Anyway, this is what I got. Not my best but certainly not the rifles fault. I have in the past put all five into the black dot.



    Then came time to test the newly fitted target sight. Well, I don't have a front sight yet so I made up something to test with. Turns out the lighting wasn't good enough for me to see the target properly through the peep. I'll make a simple mod for next session and I'll use a more suitable target. I do need a larger aperture. I've got a 0.75mm aperture and I'm thinking I will need a 1.5 or 2mm aperture. I'll be able to turn something.



    I had to use my 100m target just to be able to see it well enough to aim at. Those are actually two groups, the second after a small windage adjustment. Not great but the rifle can do better so it's between me and the sights. And my less than young eyes. But now I am confident that it's not the rifle or the ammo. I'm also confident that I can move to the 100m range.


    Previous five shot group.
    Last edited by 303Guy; 05-07-2022 at 10:39 PM.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  4. #144
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Looking great, 303 guy!

  5. #145
    Boolit Master

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    It seems to be a system that inspires obsessive behavior. . .

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    I'm back in the land of my birth on vacation. Travelled east with a complete set of fire control parts to rehabilitate my late uncle's 9-57 production 510 so his grandsons can follow in our footsteps of learning how to shoot on it. We had re-sleeved the abused barrel 15 years ago for their dad, but it wouldn't reliably stay cocked (I guess 42 bazillion rounds will do that). Took a few sight corrections, but it's now good for another couple generations.

    Buy them a new Savage instead? Ummm. . .no. Not. . .a . . .freakin'. . .chance.
    WWJMBD?

    Is the mightiness of the pen still relevant after we roll the writing paper into cartridges for a Sharps?

  6. #146
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    I went to the range today and shot at 100m (110yds) and am quite happy with the results.



    Interesting horizontal spread. A fellow shooter pointed out that there was a down range crosswind. What's important to me is that I got the temporary front sight tube just about right. I was having trouble with the original aperture of 0.75mm. Too small and not enough light so I made a new one with a 1.5mm hole. Much better. I can now see clearly, in focus and align everything.

    Next step now it to make a permanent front sight.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  7. #147
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Here is the temporary front sight I made.



    The plan - which could change.


    I could make it a chunky rectangular arrangement which they say makes for good vertical hold, and turn the tunnel into it but I'm thinking of using this rifle in the field, in which case the ring would give better all round visibility. The chunky one would be a lot easier to make so maybe I'll go with that then do the other one later.
    Last edited by 303Guy; 05-21-2022 at 11:36 PM.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  8. #148
    Boolit Buddy Rapier's Avatar
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    Are you shooting double rings? I did a good bit of experimenting with that setup on small bore competition guns.

    I do have a 510-P if the pictures of the sight setup and measurements would help you. Does your barrel have a front dovetail cut?

    I normally shoot a black 2” square, hold just off the corner, only a hair of white, scope at highest power setting. A corner in a corner.
    The Rem really likes LR HV solids 40g copper plated. I shoot Federals for super sonic and PMC target standard velocity with the suppressor gives a little crack, not bad.
    “There is a remedy for all things, save death.“
    Cervantes

    “Never give up, never quit.”
    Robert Rogers
    Roger’s Rangers

    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.
    Will Rogers

  9. #149
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Thanks, Rapier, that would indeed help me. The gun does have a front dovetail. Actually, that trial front sight I made is sitting in the dovetail. I used loctite to secure it which is why it's not obvious. I turned a 30 degree on the screw head to fit the dovetail and the compound was to secure it. What do you mean by double rings? I'm new at this.

    I used to shoot my 512 with HV's and it did very well. Not copper plated though if I remember correctly. I used the cheapest ammo and it worked fine for me. I did notice that while it shot just fine at 100 yds, when we went out to 100m, the groups opened up considerably.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  10. #150
    Boolit Master

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    By "double rings" I think Rapier is referring to the sighting setup commonly seen on Olympic smallbore rifles: the rear sight is an aperture; the front sight body is a round tube that you center in the aperture; and the INSERT inside the front sight is another ring in which you center the round bullseye target.

    The sexy versions of this system have an iris adjustment for diameter of the rear peep (i.e., the Gehman 510). The REALLY sexy versions of this have an iris adjustment for the diameter of the front insert.

    The more pedestrian way to accomplish this is the Lyman 17A or 20MJT front sights, which will fit in your existing 3/8" dovetail and allow you to change inserts.

    The problem I've had with ring inserts is that while they are great for round, black bullseyes, I have trouble getting precision on any other kind of target. A post insert gives you the same sight picture of the HK battle rifles, which gives the same ease of alignment with a more universally useful sight picture.
    WWJMBD?

    Is the mightiness of the pen still relevant after we roll the writing paper into cartridges for a Sharps?

  11. #151
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Thanks Bigslug.

    Ok so I have a rear peep sight - some Russian make I think - and currently just a small tube for the front sight. I find that I can aim quite well with that set up at a range of targets, so I want to make a front sight with a protective shroud for that small front tube.

    I did look online for front sights but all the local sights are outside my budget. I did see some affordable ones on e-bay but haven't looked again. It will be pretty easy for me to make an insert holder apart from the locating ears. There are the engraved transparent inserts that don't have locating ears that would be easy for me.

    But for now, I want to experiment with that front tube arrangement because I think it would work in the field.

    Front view of the tube. Here it has a post which I couldn't see properly the first time I tried it, using the 0.75mm aperture, so I removed it.


    It looks disproportionately thick walled but seeing it through the 1.5mm aperture at the muzzle, it is clear and just the right size for a range of targets. I was shooting at that square target in an above post just fine. I'm actually quite pleased with the sight picture.

    No doubt I'll try different dimensions for the tube at some point but for now I just need to mount it properly.

    I just looked on our local online auction and there is a front sight for not too much money but the height is wrong.
    Last edited by 303Guy; 05-24-2022 at 06:12 AM.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  12. #152
    Boolit Buddy Rapier's Avatar
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    The front sight on the 510 is .336 tall, the base is .374 wide side to side. The dovetail slot is standard Rem. This is the 510-P front sight, note the tit on the rear. The rear sight is a Williams.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    “There is a remedy for all things, save death.“
    Cervantes

    “Never give up, never quit.”
    Robert Rogers
    Roger’s Rangers

    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.
    Will Rogers

  13. #153
    Boolit Buddy Rapier's Avatar
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    This is the standard front sight for a 510. Came off of a 1940s 510.

    Th double rings I spoke of was a sight system developed for big bore silhouette shooting, front ring fits inside the rear ring in the sight picture. Entire target fits inside the front ring. This system proved to be very accurate but too slow for limited time competition. The front sight post was much faster to acquire the target.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    “There is a remedy for all things, save death.“
    Cervantes

    “Never give up, never quit.”
    Robert Rogers
    Roger’s Rangers

    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.
    Will Rogers

  14. #154
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Thanks, Rapier. That is exactly the system I'm using. I just happened to get the front ring dimensions close to just right for my eyes.

    My sight is similar to that Williams and I think my rifle may have been fitted with on in the past as it has a similar cutout in the stock and holes drilled and tapped on the receiver in that position. It was a seriously amateur job though but my sight does fit into the cutout in the stock and hides the poor workmanship. My sight has a dovetail and came without its base so I made my own.





    You can see how high the sight actually is. Also, you can see how the sight fits into the stock cutout on the bottom R/H photo. And how small that aperture is! Or was.

    I made the dovetail base real snug, requiring some force to make it move. Being brass on steel, I could do that.
    Last edited by 303Guy; 05-24-2022 at 07:29 PM.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  15. #155
    Boolit Buddy Rapier's Avatar
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    The Williams fits very low as does the factory front. But if the front post top and rear center are level on your rifle then it should adjust out Just fine.
    They probably did set the rifle up for the Williams, they were inexpensive and not intended to adjust by clicks.
    “There is a remedy for all things, save death.“
    Cervantes

    “Never give up, never quit.”
    Robert Rogers
    Roger’s Rangers

    There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.
    Will Rogers

  16. #156
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    I decided on the final sight design.



    Partly made.


    I've made the block from Ali because it is easy to machine. The tube is steel so that I can blue it. I did once have an aluminum bluing or blackening compound but it's now lost. Bluing I can do either with Caseys or boiling in de-ionized water. I would have preferred a steel block because of the weight for barrel dampening but I'll probably fit a short and heavy-ish suppressor to that end.

    The short coming of my front sight design is that it has no locator or quick remove facility. That will come with the second model which will incorporate improvements that I am sure to discover that I need. Already I'm thinking about a shroud, more for aesthetics, though. I can still fit one on this sight. I should cut the grooves for one now before I bore it and split the clamp base. We'll see what I decide to do.

    Something like this.
    Last edited by 303Guy; 05-29-2022 at 05:29 PM.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  17. #157
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    The front sight is getting there. I managed to bore the block with just the right taper and tap it onto the barrel. It has just enough tension to hold tight bat can be rotated with a tap from a plastic mallet to align it vertically. Next step is to cut split the clamp and blue and blacken the parts. And I cannot find my bluing or blackening compounds. I'm not sure whether they even exist anymore. Oh well I'll just have to get some more.



    I had to dress the barrel around the dovetail cutout, hence the sanded steel. Will need to blue that as well. But for now, it is ready for a range session as is. I haven't quite figured out how I'm going to split the clamp yet.

    Rapier, I keep looking at your rifle and thinking about a bead or pin front post. It would be do-able with my arrangement.
    Last edited by 303Guy; 05-31-2022 at 02:36 AM.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

  18. #158
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    This is so interesting. It is also so far beyond my skills that all I can do is watch and admire what you are doing.
    Both the shooting and machining.
    If I do not have a bench and optics, I can't even approach your groups. I also have no machining skills at all.

    You are doing excellent work there.

  19. #159
    Boolit Master

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    .303,

    Check the thread pitch on the socket for your rear sight aperture. A little bird told me that the Merit Master disk adjustable apertures are back in production and are pretty reasonably priced. Those that I've messed with are threaded to fit into the Lyman/Redfield pattern sights. The Gehmann and Anschutz apertures MAY be a different shank/thread size, but they are available in increasing levels of "high speed", ranging from a variable hole size on the reasonably cheap end, to a few hundred bucks for color filters and/or prescription lenses. Being able to dial the size of the hole up or down for the diameter of your front sight tube and for lighting conditions is a serious help.
    WWJMBD?

    Is the mightiness of the pen still relevant after we roll the writing paper into cartridges for a Sharps?

  20. #160
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    Thank you Taz. I got some Birchwood Perma Blue and Aluminum Black. I'll do that part when I'm ready to split the clamp, after this coming range session, weather permitting.

    Thanks Bigslug. I am on a budget but I'll check it out. My rear sight is a Russian one I think. I wonder if they are metric? Anyway, I'll check.

    I will say though that while the 1.5 mm aperture I have now lets in enough light to see by, there is still that central spot that has a distortion in it. I'm thinking that if that distortion could be kept out of the sighting image, things might be easier for me. Or maybe I could use that distortion to my advantage? Yeah, adjustable apertures and color filters could very well help a lot. Just this budget thing.
    "
    Rapier, I'm thinking about what you said on the big bore silhouette shooting, front ring fits inside the rear ring in the sight picture. Entire target fits inside the front ring". My set up has too much space between the aperture and the front ring and again, too much space between the bore of the ring and the target. With my set up, I can increase the front ring OD and reduce the ID or devise a way to have two front rings (or tubes).
    Last edited by 303Guy; 06-02-2022 at 09:02 PM.
    Rest In Peace My Son (01/06/1986 - 14/01/2014)

    ''Assume everything that moves is a human before identifying as otherwise''

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check