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Thread: CBI pistol powder

  1. #41
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by fotog54 View Post
    Took a few shots to get the hang of the LabRadar but I love it! So here are some results I hope you guys who bought this powder might find useful.

    CBI Powder testing results:

    9mm 115gr Plated bullet (Xtreme). 1.155 OAL
    Glock 17Gen4 w/factory recoil spring. Lone Wolf barrel.
    CBI Pistol Powder

    4.4gr
    Average 864fps. Would not cycle slide.

    4.6
    Average 874fps. Would not cycle slide.

    4.8
    Average 922fps. Failed to cycle slide 3 times out of 5. I would guess there was an almost 50fps jump in speed as the load become more compressed.

    5.0 grn weight. Not tested as this and above overfilled the case.

    Summary: I will NOT be using this powder with 115grn bullets.

    9mm 125gr Blue Bullet. 1.155 OAL
    Glock 17Gen4 w/factory recoil spring. Lone Wolf barrel.
    CBI Pistol Powder

    4.4gr
    Average 930fps. Normal slide cycle.

    4.6
    Average 950fps. Normal slide cycle.

    4.8
    Average 991fps. Normal slide cycle. Once again, the almost 50fps jump as the load became more compressed. PF of 114. Very little smoke!

    5.0 grn weight. Not tested as this and above overfilled the case.

    Summary: I will be using this powder with 125grn bullets. Seems to be an excellent range or match load at 4.8 if not needing to make a high power factor. I think it will make an excellent .45ACP load. 45 and 9mm are the only calibers I reload. I’m thinking about getting some .38/.357 dies when I can find them!
    I made a few of these at the 4.6 (Customer provided data on CDVS website) to the overflow capacity with both Hornady 115 grain copper RN and Bob's Lead RN 115 grain. Had an issue with the LRN's and full slide closure and fixed that by a better crimp and attention to detail on COL. Used Glock 26, 19, 17 none of them cycled the slide for both CRN and LRN 115 grn. My Glocks all have non factory Hex barrels. SAME RESULTS as YOURS I cannot use CBI for 115 grain 9mm use. Next is to setup for 124 and 147 after I finish these and my 12 ga shotshells.

    For the record, it was low recoil, clean burning, no flash or smoke. I might play with trying to compress this load further and report back with the results.
    BOTTOM LINE USING A GLOCK, 115 GR , TOPPING OFF A 9MM CASE THE SLIDE DOES NOT WANT TO CYCLE IN ALL THREE 9MM GLOCKS 26, 19, 17

  2. #42
    Boolit Bub fotog54's Avatar
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    I'm glad you confirmed my results in 9mm. I'm very happy with this powder in .45ACP and "for the record" I sold off 8 of the 16 pounds to a local reloader. I'm going to stick with titegroup for 9mm loading.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky1224 View Post
    I made a few of these at the 4.6 (Customer provided data on CDVS website) to the overflow capacity with both Hornady 115 grain copper RN and Bob's Lead RN 115 grain. Had an issue with the LRN's and full slide closure and fixed that by a better crimp and attention to detail on COL. Used Glock 26, 19, 17 none of them cycled the slide for both CRN and LRN 115 grn. My Glocks all have non factory Hex barrels. SAME RESULTS as YOURS I cannot use CBI for 115 grain 9mm use. Next is to setup for 124 and 147 after I finish these and my 12 ga shotshells.

    For the record, it was low recoil, clean burning, no flash or smoke. I might play with trying to compress this load further and report back with the results.
    BOTTOM LINE USING A GLOCK, 115 GR , TOPPING OFF A 9MM CASE THE SLIDE DOES NOT WANT TO CYCLE IN ALL THREE 9MM GLOCKS 26, 19, 17
    It is easier to forgive than to dispose of a body.

  3. #43
    Boolit Bub
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    I use this powder for 9mm. 5.0 grain's fills the case all the way up. Very accurate 128 grain pc,'d cast boolets. I tried 4.5 grains and couldn't get reliability.

  4. #44
    Boolit Master 1006's Avatar
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    Has anyone tried it with heavy 9mm(ie:147 - 160)? I used Alliant 2400 with 158 grain bullets in 9mm carbine with with good results. Maybe this mystery powder will do the same.

  5. #45
    Boolit Buddy
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    I bought some and made up 3 rounds of different charges for.38 special. NOE 35993 (90gr) powder coated bullet. Shot in my .357 Ruger.

    Load #1 3.5gr Recoil was .22 lr like plus really quite. Hit low right on paper plate at 10 yards.
    Load #2 3.7gr. Same point of impact. Very little recoil and just a tad louder.
    Load #3 4.0gr recoil still light but getting closer to the feel of my regular low powered cast .38's. Same point of impact.

    The powder did smoke a bit but really isn't an issue with me. The revolver did have unburt powder or some other kind of residue but easily cleaned up with a dry patch. Honestly I was more concerned with working up a safe load over accuracy this test but I'll get a little deeper into development to see what kind of accuracy I can get.

    I have not tried with any other caliber yet but will once I get the .38 special dialed in.
    Last edited by Friends call me Pac; 12-22-2021 at 08:57 PM.
    USAF (Retired) 1985-2005

  6. #46
    Boolit Buddy
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    In my Ruger 357 Security 6 I tried 5 shots with the 90gr lrn and 3.5, 4.0 & 4.5 grains of cbi at 15 yards with a rest. 3.5 gave me a group of about 2". Not stellar by any means but will work for a cheap plinker load. 4.0 was just a tad bigger than 3.5 and 4.5 opened up slightly to about 2.5-3" and wasn't really much of a difference. On the other hand I tried my standard load of a 147gr lswc with 231 and the group was a lot tighter so I know it wasn't me. Maybe more tinkering with different bullet weights are in order. I like using the 90gr bullet due to the more I can get out of a pound of lead opposed to say 147gr.

    With these being test loads I weighed each individual charge. When I find the best all around load I'll see how the powder meters in my progressive.
    USAF (Retired) 1985-2005

  7. #47
    Boolit Bub
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    I test fired some starting loads using a .357 mag 6 grains of this powder coal 1.6 with a 158 grains powder coated pill. Load felt a little heavier than a 38 spl. Very clean burning didn't get a chance to chrono. Almost a compressed load. I also used a Lee dipper the 1.0 size gives 6.0 grains. For those that use them.

  8. #48
    Boolit Master
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    a bit of looking into CBI powder out of curiosity turns up that it is (Clean Burning Initiator or CBI) used in 155mm artillery
    not being a ballistics engineer I have no idea how this relates to recreational small arms caliber loads.
    from what has been said it seems like a bulky powder, makes me wonder how it might compare to the old SR4759

  9. #49
    Boolit Mold
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    help I need to find load data for COMMERCIAL #5 .45ACP PLEASE!

  10. #50
    Boolit Buddy
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    I loaded 3 rounds each with CBI powder charges at 4.0 (Black line group), 4.5 (Red line group) & 5.0 (Blue line group) Bullet is a 90gr NOE round nose sized and pc'd.

    10 yards offhand out of my .38 S&W 637. No smoke that I noticed and seems pretty clean but only shot the 9 rounds. Very little recoil even in my little Air Weight snubbie. I will be sticking with the 4.5gr load.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Friends call me Pac; 03-29-2022 at 04:49 PM.
    USAF (Retired) 1985-2005

  11. #51
    Boolit Mold
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    Seeing the results here has anyone really experiment with "off caliber" uses ( outside of the distributor listed load data)? Thinking for ex tokarev, 44 mag, 38 super, 357 sig or any other creative uses?

  12. #52
    Boolit Buddy
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    Any load data for rifles with cast boolits?

  13. #53
    Boolit Buddy
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    I've figured out the load with cbi for my .38 and today I did some testing with my Kimber 45acp. 200gr lswc powder coated. 15 yards offhand.

    I shot groups of 5 starting with 5.5 and ending with 6.4 I shot lowest and highest loads on the same plate then would repeat with the next two loads.
    Here are all three targets with the six different loads. Left target was first then middle ending with target #3 on right

    Click image for larger version. 

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    CBI doesn't meter well in my rcbs uniflow. Not horrible but not exactly spot on either. I believe it does well enough for my intended purposes of punching holes in paper and pinging steel.
    USAF (Retired) 1985-2005

  14. #54
    Boolit Bub TribunusSanGeorgii's Avatar
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    I just got my 8lbs in from American Reloading, planning on using it for .45 and maybe trying some low velocity cast rifle rounds

  15. #55
    Boolit Mold
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    Got 16 lb coming from CDVS (16$ / lb after ship and hazmat? Yep lets try it..). Thank you who have provided load data - will be loading 9mm under Lee 356-120-TC.. anyone looking at OAL and seat depth? Much has been said about seating depth changing the pressure impulse.. will share load data once I do some testing

  16. #56
    Boolit Master
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    I have went through this thread in detail a few times now; wanted to throw this idea out:

    Is this powder a match for Trail Boss ? (More specifically, was Trail Boss developed from this ??)
    The burning rate and bulk density both seem to be close.

    From looking at pics, something of a resemblance with each being perforated disc.
    The size may be different; can't ascertain in that I don't have both in front of me.

    The burning rate chart I have, puts Trail Boss right between Solo 1000 & 1250;
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky1224 View Post
    [...] I called Hodgdon and asked one of their powder specialists to research this powder. The values I was able to get from military documents were flake, single based, low density Type II (had perforations) 98% nitrocellulose (with the common stabilizers) during VN war until the 80's.

    Hodgdon replied the next day that the only powder that shared these characteristics was SOLO 1000 and SOLO 1250. The only chart that comes close to the SOLO chart was the original data supplied by the company selling the powder. [...]
    Edit:
    I just did some Quickload modeling with Herco (a good guess earlier in this thread) and then with Trail Boss (223Rem & 30-30).
    Pressures were extremely close (huge differences in loading density of course).

    Once we can cross-check Quickload estimates for Trail Boss loading densities against this CBI, that might be a pretty good step toward figuring this out.
    Last edited by Kestrel4k; 04-17-2023 at 08:10 PM.

  17. #57
    Boolit Master
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    Per the published Mil Spec, CBI type II (perforated flake) calculates to 0.43 grams/cc (plus/minus 10%).

    I did some Quickload back-calculating with Trail Boss and Red Dot; 0.31 grams/cc & 0.46 grams/cc respectively.
    Just some numbers of interest; not as accurate as taking actual measurements of course ...
    Last edited by Kestrel4k; 04-17-2023 at 08:12 PM.

  18. #58
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel4k View Post
    Per the published Mil Spec, CBI type II (perforated flake) calculates to 0.43 grams/cc (plus/minus 10%).

    I did some Quickload back-calculating with Trail Boss and Red Dot; 0.31 grams/cc & 0.46 grams/cc respectively.
    Just some numbers of interest; not as accurate as taking actual measurements of course ...
    Another powder with the same approximate burn rate as Trail Boss & Herco is Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star. Based on a Quickload evaluation I ran, Tin Star has 0.45 grams/cc.
    Last edited by P Flados; 04-21-2023 at 12:10 PM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check