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Thread: CBI pistol powder

  1. #21
    Boolit Master flyingmonkey35's Avatar
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    So far I have shot and tested loads of cbi powder

    All cast bulletz
    Gun used Ruger p 19
    9mm.
    110 grain bullets. 4.5 grains of cbi.
    Nice pop feedsand shoots fine.

    128 grain 4.5 - 5.5 grains
    I found the 5granis to be the sweet spot.

    Ruger gp 100 38 special

    160 grain lubed bullet. 7 grains
    Very nice load. Punchy

    1911
    45 acp. 200 grain 5.5 grains would cycle but was all over the place. Bumped to 6.2 and found my sweet spot.

    45 long colt
    260 grain cast
    7 grains. Fills the case more than half way and is fun to shoot.

    223. Bolt action

    55 g cast bullet. Over 3 grains of cbi with small pistol primer

    It's a tack driver.

    12 gauge shot gun

    7/8 ounce load. 20 grain sc if of cbi.
    It's too hot flashes r me need to back it down.

    I will get the chronograph out and document my tests results.

    Also

    Cbi is from a manfacture that make military powder only.

    Their load data is for 9mm 45acp & 38 special..

    The plant is also starting to make primers.

    As they as already manufzcter blasting caps and fuses for military ordeance.



    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  2. #22
    Boolit Bub fotog54's Avatar
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    Great. Thank you.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    It is easier to forgive than to dispose of a body.

  3. #23
    Boolit Mold
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    I load 28gr behind 1-1/4oz #4 bird and buck12ga, I'm working on svarog paradox slugs will keep you updated.

  4. #24
    Boolit Bub fotog54's Avatar
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    I sold a gun last week and decided to use that money toward a Labradar chronograph. It should be here on Monday and I hope I can get some loads done later in the week and head to my local range.
    It is easier to forgive than to dispose of a body.

  5. #25
    Boolit Bub fotog54's Avatar
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    Minor update. I just loaded up my test rounds and I hope to get to the local range Wednesday. This powder is very "fluffy" and takes up a lot of volume. The attached picture is 4.6grn in a 9mm case. I loaded up some 115grn (plated) and 125grn (blue coated) bullets at 4.4, 4.6 and 4.8 grains. The 4.8 was flush with the top of the case! I was planning to load 5.0 and 5.2 but that wasn't going to work. I'll also be chronographing some factory Federal 115grn to use as "reference" load.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #26
    Boolit Bub fotog54's Avatar
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    Took a few shots to get the hang of the LabRadar but I love it! So here are some results I hope you guys who bought this powder might find useful.

    CBI Powder testing results:

    9mm 115gr Plated bullet (Xtreme). 1.155 OAL
    Glock 17Gen4 w/factory recoil spring. Lone Wolf barrel.
    CBI Pistol Powder

    4.4gr
    Average 864fps. Would not cycle slide.

    4.6
    Average 874fps. Would not cycle slide.

    4.8
    Average 922fps. Failed to cycle slide 3 times out of 5. I would guess there was an almost 50fps jump in speed as the load become more compressed.

    5.0 grn weight. Not tested as this and above overfilled the case.

    Summary: I will NOT be using this powder with 115grn bullets.

    9mm 125gr Blue Bullet. 1.155 OAL
    Glock 17Gen4 w/factory recoil spring. Lone Wolf barrel.
    CBI Pistol Powder

    4.4gr
    Average 930fps. Normal slide cycle.

    4.6
    Average 950fps. Normal slide cycle.

    4.8
    Average 991fps. Normal slide cycle. Once again, the almost 50fps jump as the load became more compressed. PF of 114. Very little smoke!

    5.0 grn weight. Not tested as this and above overfilled the case.

    Summary: I will be using this powder with 125grn bullets. Seems to be an excellent range or match load at 4.8 if not needing to make a high power factor. I think it will make an excellent .45ACP load. 45 and 9mm are the only calibers I reload. I’m thinking about getting some .38/.357 dies when I can find them!
    It is easier to forgive than to dispose of a body.

  7. #27
    Boolit Bub fotog54's Avatar
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    I'm beginning to believe this powder could be the same as Midwest Powder MP 190. Loads seem pretty similar.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...idwest-powders.
    It is easier to forgive than to dispose of a body.

  8. #28
    Boolit Mold
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    I use CBI powder for 38 special 160 grain SWC (Ruger SP101), and just started loading 230grain RN for 45acp too (Kimber custom). I'll try it in 45LC with 255 grain SWC (Ruger Blackhawk) soon.

  9. #29
    Boolit Mold
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    today I got my cheapo chronograph set up and loaded my 44 mag, 240gr SWC with 9.5 grains CBI...995fps. 10.0grains produced 1050fps. The cases are full at this point, and Im not experienced enough to figure out a safe compression load. This powder seems to run almost every handgun caliber I own with the exception of 9mm, which I haven't tried because of the bulkiness of the powder. For Hunting loads in 45LC and 44 mag, I'll still use AA#9, or 296 for heavy hitting.

  10. #30
    Boolit Bub fotog54's Avatar
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    .45 ACP Loads for CBI Powder.

    Just got back from the local indoor range with some good results for the CBI powder in .45ACP. These results were from using my Glock 21 with stock recoil springs and a Lone Wolf .45ACP barrel.

    The gun cycled properly with all of these loads.

    Bullet was a Better Bullets 200grn LRN. S&B LPP. I would expect similar results using a coated 200grn bullet.

    CBI Powder charge Average Velocity (fps)

    5.6 grns 806

    5.8 grns 824

    6.0 grns 851

    6.2 grns 873

    6.4 grns 890



    In a couple of sets I noticed some rather large deviation from low to high. In the 5.6 grn results I discarded the high and recalculated the average for the above result. It is pretty obvious this powder does not meter very consistently in my Dillon powder system. Perhaps some type of vibrating device attached to the powder dump might help. A .2 grain increase showed to result in an approximately 20fps increase in velocity.

    My long standing “go to” load for this bullet in .45 has been 4.0grn of TiteWad. That load showed an average of 856fps.

    Overall I’m pretty impressed with this powder for .45. I didn’t think it was a bit smokey and was a pleasure to shoot even at 6.4 grns.

    I’m still trying to find a brand name that comes pretty close to this load data to use as a guide. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

    Lee

    Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #31
    Boolit Bub fotog54's Avatar
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    Playing around with the chart creation function in Libre Office Calc. Graph of the 5.6 grain load tested today. What a spread!

    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #32
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by fotog54 View Post
    .45 ACP Loads for CBI Powder.

    Just got back from the local indoor range with some good results for the CBI powder in .45ACP. These results were from using my Glock 21 with stock recoil springs and a Lone Wolf .45ACP barrel.

    The gun cycled properly with all of these loads.

    Bullet was a Better Bullets 200grn LRN. S&B LPP. I would expect similar results using a coated 200grn bullet.

    CBI Powder charge Average Velocity (fps)

    5.6 grns 806

    5.8 grns 824

    6.0 grns 851

    6.2 grns 873

    6.4 grns 890



    In a couple of sets I noticed some rather large deviation from low to high. In the 5.6 grn results I discarded the high and recalculated the average for the above result. It is pretty obvious this powder does not meter very consistently in my Dillon powder system. Perhaps some type of vibrating device attached to the powder dump might help. A .2 grain increase showed to result in an approximately 20fps increase in velocity.

    My long standing “go to” load for this bullet in .45 has been 4.0grn of TiteWad. That load showed an average of 856fps.

    Overall I’m pretty impressed with this powder for .45. I didn’t think it was a bit smokey and was a pleasure to shoot even at 6.4 grns.

    I’m still trying to find a brand name that comes pretty close to this load data to use as a guide. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

    Lee

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	labradar001.jpg 
Views:	53 
Size:	48.5 KB 
ID:	280107
    Perhaps it is close to Winchester Auto Comp. Another person posted a chart for .357 sig which looked also close to this same powder. Please look at that and see if you can find some pattern. I called Hodgdon and asked one of their powder specialist to research this powder. The values I was able to get from military documents were flake, single based, low density Type II (had perforations) 98% nitrocellulose (with the common stabilizers) during VN war until the 80's.

    Hodgdon replied the next day that the only powder that shared these characteristics was SOLO 1000 and SOLO 1250. The only chart that comes close to the SOLO chart was the original data supplied by the company selling the powder. That slightly follows SOLO data specs. I have 16 lbs of this powder myself and just getting back into reloading after a long period (20-years) This is mystery powder.

  13. #33
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingmonkey35 View Post
    So far I have shot and tested loads of cbi powder

    All cast bulletz
    Gun used Ruger p 19
    9mm.
    110 grain bullets. 4.5 grains of cbi.
    Nice pop feedsand shoots fine.

    128 grain 4.5 - 5.5 grains
    I found the 5granis to be the sweet spot.

    Ruger gp 100 38 special

    160 grain lubed bullet. 7 grains
    Very nice load. Punchy

    1911
    45 acp. 200 grain 5.5 grains would cycle but was all over the place. Bumped to 6.2 and found my sweet spot.

    45 long colt
    260 grain cast
    7 grains. Fills the case more than half way and is fun to shoot.

    223. Bolt action

    55 g cast bullet. Over 3 grains of cbi with small pistol primer

    It's a tack driver.

    12 gauge shot gun

    7/8 ounce load. 20 grain sc if of cbi.
    It's too hot flashes r me need to back it down.

    I will get the chronograph out and document my tests results.

    Also

    Cbi is from a manfacture that make military powder only.

    Their load data is for 9mm 45acp & 38 special..

    The plant is also starting to make primers.

    As they as already manufzcter blasting caps and fuses for military ordeance.



    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
    Slightly follows the Accurate SOLO 1000 chart which is what Hodgdon says is the closest. Still not perfect match though

  14. #34
    Boolit Bub fotog54's Avatar
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    I'm beginning to think this is some type of 'special' use powder. It might have started out as some manufacturers pistol/shotgun powder but I think it has 'filler' material added to increase the volume. I'm perfectly happy to use it in .45, smoke is almost non-existent. I am amazed that some of the reports that others have used it with 115grn bullets in 9mm. None of my 115grn loads would cycle my Glock! I was okay with it using 125grn bullets but I didn't like it being a compressed load. When I get some 38/357 dies for my SDB I'd be happy to try it in that caliber.
    Last edited by fotog54; 03-28-2021 at 01:25 PM.
    It is easier to forgive than to dispose of a body.

  15. #35
    Boolit Bub fotog54's Avatar
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    Some further research shows that loading is "similar" to Solo 1250 which looks like it was discontinued about 10 years ago. Some old load data is here:
    https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...nd-9mm.779265/
    It is easier to forgive than to dispose of a body.

  16. #36
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by fotog54 View Post
    Some further research shows that loading is "similar" to Solo 1250 which looks like it was discontinued about 10 years ago. Some old load data is here:
    https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...nd-9mm.779265/
    Good deal, I was looking at SOLO 1000 after the HodgDon experts were pointing to that direction and didn't look yet at the SOLO 1250 which was the other one he mentioned. So we have a good possibility now. The bad news is I found some of my reloading equipment that been packed away last 20-years is misplaced or missing. I might end up buying new dies, primers and maybe other items unless I can find everything before I can test this stuff.

  17. #37
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by fotog54 View Post
    I'm beginning to think this is some type of 'special' use powder. It might have started out as some manufacturers pistol/shotgun powder but I think it has 'filler' material added to increase the volume. I'm perfectly happy to use it in .45, smoke is almost non-existent. I am amazed that some of the reports that others have used it with 115grn bullets in 9mm. None of my 115grn loads would cycle my Glock! I was okay with it using 125grn bullets but I didn't like it being a compressed load. When I get some 38/357 dies for my SDB I'd be happy to try it in that caliber.
    From an old IAA/cartridge collectors/Propellant Destruction discussion:
    "If they were breaking down bag charges for 155s and such, there is no telling how they stored the initiator bags, which contain a 3.5 to 4 ounce charge of NC powder that is small grain like pistol powder (called Clean Burning Initiator or CBI) and a black powder patch of about an ounce of canon grade BP."
    https://forum.cartridgecollectors.or...truction/15218

  18. #38
    Boolit Mold
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    Another CBI definition:
    "What Are Clean Burning Igniters (CBI)?"
    "CBI is a a flaky material, and is also kept in bags, though in much smaller amounts than M6. CBI is 98% Nitrocellulose, with small amounts of Diphenylamine, Potassium Nitrate and Graphite glaze"
    https://www.epa.gov/sites/production..._2.12.2015.pdf

    From page 48 bottom right hand corner:
    "In the text below, representative applications of CB technology are provided followed by an example of a larger application where 16 million lb of M6 propellant and Clean Burning Igniter (CBI) were destroyed."
    https://cswab.org/wp-content/uploads...tions-2019.pdf

  19. #39
    Boolit Mold
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    Read the Mil-Spec (MIL-P-60356A) for CBI here, see page 3/3.1.2/3.2 for powder ingredients/proportion/flake size (click "Next" or "Back" in blue near the page top-center to advance or retreat a page):
    http://mil-spec.tpub.com/MIL-P/MIL-P...0356A00001.htm

  20. #40
    Boolit Man
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    Just a heads up, CDVS has it back in stock

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check