Short barrel shotguns

[ChuckJaxFL]

I bought a 14” 11-87 not too long ago.

<<Original, off-topic and distracting, text deleted from here.>>


I broke my chrono recently. I’ll replace it soon. In the mean time, has anyone done any real testing in short barrels to see what powders are best suited for 14” barrels?

Seems with all the shockwaves & tac14’s that have hit the range recently, that someone should have wrung them out by now.



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[rking22]

Shockwaves and tac14s are pumps, they don’t care about the load. With an auto of that design I suspect they could be picky depending on how the shooter”handles” the recoil. With little mass and limp wristing a bit there could be malfunctions. I have had people having trouble with auto shooting skeet, I take their gun and ammo and have no issue. And that’s with a shoulder stock. Hold on to it like you mean it and see if it’s better.

[Petrol & Powder]

Is there a connection between that broken chronograph and that shot barreled shotgun ?

[jdfoxinc]

The 11-87 is gas operated.

[centershot]

Yes, it's gas operated but it has 1/3 the mass of a full size gun and if you limp-wrist it the recoil spring won't get a full stroke.

[ChuckJaxFL]

Is there a connection between that broken chronograph and that shot barreled shotgun ?

Nope. I actually did the damage with my 1894. I didn’t shoot it, but I was stupid enough to shoot close enough that the muzzle blast cracked the LCD display.


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[megasupermagnum]

I'm not familiar with the 11-87, but I have shot enough 1100's. I've shot some very light loads through them with no issue. A quick search shows that certain 11-87 barrels are made for different loads. Specifically the slug barrel is made only for slug loads, which are almost all very powerful. Maybe this is the case, but I would think the short barrels would be expected to shoot lower recoil ammo. I do know that the gas system on the Remingtons is not my favorite. It may do you good to give it a total cleaning, I think there is an o-ring or 2 that needs replacing now and then. Lighter springs may be in order, but do research on that first.

[Ozark mike]

My h&r 12ga 20 inch bbl uses the same oring that magnum is talking about although it is missing at this time it still cycles fine without it As long as it is well lubed if it gets dry it will not eject at all as soon as i replace that oring it should be fine again but no excuse for not oiling the action

[ChuckJaxFL]

Shockwaves and tac14s are pumps, they don’t care about the load. With an auto of that design I suspect they could be picky depending on how the shooter”handles” the recoil. With little mass and limp wristing a bit there could be malfunctions. I have had people having trouble with auto shooting skeet, I take their gun and ammo and have no issue. And that’s with a shoulder stock. Hold on to it like you mean it and see if it’s better.

I deny limp-shouldering it. It’s just not setup to handle low energy rounds. Don’t take my word for it. Here, scroll through some of these.

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=...ile-gws-wiz-hp

I didn’t express my question very well, though. I’m not concerned about the cycling and, in hindsight, I should have just left that out of the conversation. Every manufacturer recommended, straight-from-the-website, handload cycles perfectly. Also, “cheap” buckshot works perfectly. Hunting loads work perfectly. It only chokes on expensive “tactical” stuff. That problem is easy enough to not have.


What I’m actually wondering if anyone has done the homework to see if our favorite heavy 12 powders (Blue Dot, Longshot, etc) give up much velocity when we go from 28” barrels to a 14”, or if there’s really not a lot of difference. 25 grains of Unique works 100% under 9x00B. If switching to Blue Dot or Longshot or anything else doesn’t give me any better performance, I don’t see any sense in keeping both powders on hand.

For what it’s worth, I’ve another chrony enroute. If no one else has done so, and if there’s any interest here, maybe I’ll take my 14” and one of the full-size guns out and compare & contrast the same ammo through both and report back.


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[Petrol & Powder]

The "tactical" loads are often low recoil loads, which may seem a bit counter-intuitive at first. They are intended to reduce recoil and help get the shooter back on target quicker.

As for the 11-87, I had one years ago and it was a decent auto loader but I never really warmed up to it. It is basically an improved 1100, with a slightly better gas system.

There are really only a handful of operating systems when it comes to semi-auto shotguns: long recoil (such as the Browning Auto-5, Franchi AL-48 or Remington 11-48) , Gas operated (such as the Remington 11-87, the Beretta 300 series and many others) or inertia operated (such as the Benelli )

They all have pros & cons

[megasupermagnum]

It depends on what you you are looking for as far as what you consider increased performance. If what you are looking for is heavy payloads, say 12 pellet 00 buckshot, then Bluedot is what you want. If you want speed, then something like 8 pellet with Longshot might be the way to go. If you want a tight pattern, then just about anything can work, and you would want to look into buffered load data.

There are millions of shotguns out there with 18 1/2" to 20" barrels. 14" won't be far behind those as far as velocities.

[Hogtamer]

I suspect the use of faster powders like clays or 700x ill produce a much cleaner burn in a shorty.

[Ozark mike]

Might produce a clean burn but where is the pressure spike in the curve

[rking22]

Pressure peak is within a few inches of the breech with any approximate powder, need enough gas volume at the ports to operate the mechanism. Slower powders make more gas’s and hold a higher port pressure, at the expense of more muzzle blast and therefore recoil. I have looked at getting a tac14 to play with, would shoot 1 oz target loads in it. If I wanted buckshot it would be standard hunting loads. Suspect the same would work in the 11-87. I have no chron data for shotguns, not my cup a tea, pattern is what counts for me.

Powders I would use would be green dot and unique, both are middle of the road for a 12 and cycle most all sim is fine. If I do a tac14 it will get 700x and titewad, for less muzzleblast. Things are loud at 18, I bet 14 ain’t any less so!

[farmbif]

I understand what the question is but not sure of the answer ,shooting the same 170 grain load my 26" barreled 30-30 will have higher velocity than my 16" trapper.
not sure if the same effect applies to shotguns--good question

[Ozark mike]

I understand what the question is but not sure of the answer ,shooting the same 170 grain load my 26" barreled 30-30 will have higher velocity than my 16" trapper.
not sure if the same effect applies to shotguns--good question

The diffrence here is a 30 30 uses rifle powders where shot guns use quicker pistol powders. The load is accelerated quickly then tapers off. Where a rifle the load accelerates most of the way down the bbl at a constant rate
Kinda like apples and oranges with a few bananas

[farmbif]

ive always noticed that shotshell load data gives pressure and velocity but never seen any note of barrel length. I still need to get a pound of pro reach and see how some of those real fast loads effect pattern

[ChuckJaxFL]

I found this:

https://www.kommandoblog.com/2017/05...ngth-velocity/

I’m surprised at the numbers. I would have thought there would be a lot more disparity in different barrels than these numbers would indicate.


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[W.R.Buchanan]

Call Vang Comp 1-928-636-8455 They can probably tell you exactly what is wrong with that gun. Hans Vang is the "Absolute Guru of Police Shotguns" and that is a "Police Shotgun!"

Randy

[pashiner]

As for 14 inch barrels and blue dot, I'm about to test that very thing...blue dot round ball loads in my shockwave. I know, compared to a 28" barrel, those shorties really throw some fireballs with commercial slug loads, and are obviously much louder. We'll see of I get a complete burn in the short barrel if it doesn't rain tonight.