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Thread: Smokeless powder cylinder for Ruger Old Army

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Smokeless powder cylinder for Ruger Old Army

    Anybody interested in SMOKELESS POWDER CYLINDER FOR RUGER OLD ARMY?

    I just had a conversation with the lady from Howell Arms https://www.howellarms.com/ regarding manufacturing of SMOKELESS CYLINDER FOR MUZZLE-LOADING REVOLVER, using 209 shotgun primers. They have patent for such cylinder:

    https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publ...&locale=en_EP#

    US2005016050 (A1) - SMOKELESS CYLINDER FOR MUZZLE-LOADING REVOLVER

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Cylinder for ROA.jpg 
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ID:	266348

    They made some years back, and as it stands now, they consider that market is limited for such product, and have no intention of manufacturing it at present time. However, if we can organize group buy (GB) and have order for at least 50 cylinders to be made, either standard alloy (blue) or stainless, they will consider manufacturing them again. As for the price, I do not have it yet, but expect to be tad more than their conversion cylinders for 45 ACP and 45 Colt.

    So what do you say on this, anybody interested?

    FYI, I will post the same on two other forums, and hopefully, we will have order for 50.
    Last edited by Onty; 08-17-2020 at 01:49 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    I don't see the point if it costs more than the .45 ACP or .45 Colt conversion cylinders which you can shoot factory ammo in.
    The ENEMY is listening.
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  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    I don't see the point if it costs more than the .45 ACP or .45 Colt conversion cylinders which you can shoot factory ammo in.
    Good point! However, I have even better one; why somebody would spend for conversion cylinder anywhere from $240 to $365, when for $659.99 could be purchased brand new NMB Convertible 45 Colt/45 ACP?

    Well, in free countries folks do certain things because they can. Many of us just like Ruger Old Army. However, shooting black powder, Pyrodex and Triple 7 could be a hassle. Those are more or less corrosive and create crude residue, and revolver has to be taken apart from time to time to be thoroughly cleaned. Also, those primers some time fell down locking revolver. On top of that, many indoor ranges prohibit black powder or any smoky substitutes. In regions where winters are long and cold, that means no shooting good part of the year. So, it would be a nice to have as an option a cylinder that could be used with 209 primers and smokeless powders.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master Ozark mike's Avatar
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    Didnt ruger test their cylinders with smokless
    Those who would trade freedom for safety deserves neither and will lose both

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozark mike View Post
    Didnt ruger test their cylinders with smokless
    Yes they did, but I won't post the "recipe."
    The ENEMY is listening.
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  6. #6
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    That is good cause if I remember it right it is scary............
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  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddixie884 View Post
    That is good cause if I remember it right it is scary............
    Old Army proof approximated SAAMI proof level for smokeless .45 Colt, about double the expected black powder pressure.
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Those Kirst converter cylinders were designed to be shot with smokeless loads loaded to cowboy load specs. if I remember correctly. Leastwise, that’s the way some folks I know have been doing it for years, including my shaving partner.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    I doubt you'll get your 50 if all the responses are negative, but I'd be in for a pair.
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    I just saw a guy on YouTube telling everyone how he uses smokeless in his Pietta. It was “Clays” powder and he is saying it’s a “safe powder to use because it’s used in light loads” (or something like that). What’s more, he uses a small kitchen measuring spoon and just uses a little bit so it’s OK. I kid you not. I’m going to go look & see if it’s still up and send a warning to YouTubers.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    yeah, i've seen the video. aside from a rather ... informal powder measure.......problem is he has no control over case capacity, really. That's the major issue and why I would love one or three of these cylinders from howell
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  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by koyote View Post
    yeah, i've seen the video. aside from a rather ... informal powder measure.......problem is he has no control over case capacity, really. That's the major issue and why I would love one or three of these cylinders from howell
    The point is that every shooter must have a control while loading. We have to be responsible. I would expect that manufacturer will supply basic loads. Since we are talking about 2 dia in the chamber, this will prevent pushing boolit too far inside the chamber. I have no any info about eventual powder space of this cylinder, but I have feeling that loads could be close to those for .455 Colt/Eley or .455 Webley Mk I.

    Let be straight; nobody can stop any of us from filling 45 Colt case with Bullseye and put on top 260 grains bullet. Well, we don't do that, because we know very well what will be consequences.

  13. #13
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    Here is that mind boggling video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6rDrpt0MTc&t=230s . He is showing can of Clays (fast smokeless powder), he used. How on the earth he "figured out that correct charge is ...about 2/3 of quarter tea spoon"?

    Also, here is the link to thread where a gentleman (at that time 15 years old kid) explained how he managed to wreck even Ruger Old Army https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph....866073/page-3 .

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    yes, I've seen the video.

    I would probably be using red dot or bullseye, anyway. is there a problem with fast powders?
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  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Sounds like a job for Trailboss. Maybe it's good for something after all........
    Cognitive Dissident

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by koyote View Post
    yes, I've seen the video.

    I would probably be using red dot or bullseye, anyway. is there a problem with fast powders?
    No, of course. Problem is that using "2/3 of quarter tea spoon" as a way of measuring fast burning powder will certainly lead (sooner or later) to too much powder, and result will be extremely high pressure. This is especially dangerous when shooting 44 cal. Remington 1858, because those revolvers have fairly thin cylinder walls. Those cylinders are OK for black powder, but for smokeless!?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by uscra112 View Post
    Sounds like a job for Trailboss. Maybe it's good for something after all........
    Trailboss from what I have read does not like to be compressed so even with a two step chamber it may not be a great choice.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

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  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onty View Post
    No, of course. Problem is that using "2/3 of quarter tea spoon" as a way of measuring fast burning powder will certainly lead (sooner or later) to too much powder, and result will be extremely high pressure. This is especially dangerous when shooting 44 cal. Remington 1858, because those revolvers have fairly thin cylinder walls. Those cylinders are OK for black powder, but for smokeless!?
    okay, and? I feel like I've read this three times before. I am aware that the problems of using a variable measure, variable seating depth, and variable ignition are problematic problems. Yep! there's entire threads about that.

    got it.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by uscra112 View Post
    Sounds like a job for Trailboss. Maybe it's good for something after all........
    Trail Boss is a "high pressure low velocity" powder, but it is accurate!

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    I tried trail boss for a bit. It's not bad, but red dot is generally available, way cheaper, and still fluffy enough that it's hard to double charge a typical straight wall pistol case.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check