I’d like to see a large, single lube groove as VS suggested.
I’d like to see a large, single lube groove as VS suggested.
8500' Wet Mountain Valley, Colorado
I agree with one large lube groove.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'm not experienced with black powder. The only black powder arms that I have are the ROA and a Lyman Great Plains. I have no problem with the last design. The designs that 45 2.1 has put forward over the years have been widely accepted. But, if the decision is to make the lube groove larger, I have no problem with that either.
One question: Can the .457 boolit be sized to .454? I don't have a clone(never say never) but .0015 less depth of lube groove seems doable if I can accept that it is a compromise.
Put me down for one 2 cavity .457 diameter mold. alamogunr AT charter DOT net
John
W.TN
I am in for the original and/or the current designed proposal. Switching to the Dick Dastardly big lube bullet single lube bullet will probably put me out. I would have to see it first.
I had some of the very first of his designs and the center post would compress. Later they were made larger but with your design and a hollow base that may become an issue.
The Dick Dastardly big lube bullet was mostly geared towards the cowboy shooter were accuracy requirements are very low. I have some of the later designs and not impressed with how they shoot.
Dick is a member but has not been on here since 2017.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...e-(tm)-Bullets
When you design a better mouse trap the world will beat a path to your door. The DD Big Lube designs have been around for a very long time yet they remain a rarity.
The original 45 Colt bullet worked very well with BP and it had relatively small lube grooves. Pic on post #21 below.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...iginal-45-Colt
The Lyman #452664 is a single lube design that works well with BP but so does the 454190.
https://dailycaller.com/2015/04/24/t...nic-cartridge/
On a side note the 454190 holds enough lube to site get a lube star on my 24" lever guns. For a 7 1/2" ROA I don't see a lack of lube being an issue with the current design.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 03-13-2021 at 10:58 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Knowing how many very successful boolits 45 2.1 designed, I felt the same, so I asked him for help, and he provided this design.
As for sizing boolit down from .457" to .454", it could be done. However, bottom portion .451" will not be affected, and if chambers are .450", boolit will not slide inside. That will make much more difficult to position/align it properly, and because of the boolit AOL, loading and ramming will have to be done on the bench, using one of those presses:
Well, removing cylinder from revolver for reloading is something I wanted to avoid.
Last edited by Onty; 03-14-2021 at 02:59 AM.
I already use a press like the one you pictured for the ROA. Not sure what is involved in removing the cylinder from some of the clones but it may not be a concern since I may never obtain a clone.
John
W.TN
FWIW I shoot CAS shoots with BP cartridges at least once a month, sometimes 3, for the last 8 years. I use mostly Big Lube bullets or some designs of my own, that hold about as much lube. For pistols the lube requirements are not nearly as important as in a rifle, so one large or 2 smaller lube grooves should be fine. Glad to see the smaller, longer rebate for those of us who shoot Piettas/Ubertis. I have the Dick Dastardly Big Lube version and it just didn't load straight without out a lot of extra work, and never worked loading on the gun. Even though I don't own an ROA I would personally go with the .457 version, as with soft cast it shouldn't be a problem seating the bullet, and make for a better seal.
I'm in for single or double lube groove as long as the base is .450. And either 2 or 4 cavity, whichever one gets made.
Last edited by Springfield; 03-14-2021 at 01:25 PM.
Maybe I missed it, but didn’t see what material the moulds are to be made of.
Also, width of grease grooves is more important than depth. With deep grooves some lube risks not being used. Is the total width of the two grooves added together more or less than the single groove? If it is more, two grooves could be better. If it is less than a single groove is better.
It would be good to get a guarantee that handles are available with the moulds, if you want them. In the past they have been out of stock when I wanted to buy a stock mould.
Miha, MP-Molds https://www.mp-molds.com/ so it would be brass or aluminum. With the hollow base it might be brass only.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
MP-Molds Cramer style are all made from brass:
Here is mold for .455 Webley, with hollow base.
I am in for the one in post 17, I believe I will pass on the single groove design. The longest barrels these will be shot in is 7 1/2". The original design carries sufficient lube for that. Since DD is a member I am trying to not disparage but the last thing I want is more big lube designs clones that shoot marginal at best.
For the people saying the two groove design doesn't carry enough lube explain to me why the original 45 Colt bullets worked so well if they didn't carry enough lube????? Same for the various 454190 designs???? They even hold enough lube for my 24" lever guns and BP.
They tested some originals here in a 24" barrel.
http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12327
w30wcf aka w44wcf aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 was a member here until he passed in 2018.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 03-14-2021 at 06:30 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Last edited by M-Tecs; 03-14-2021 at 07:32 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
I want a design that works with pure lead. Not 20-1 or a harder alloy.
Some highlights from an older thread.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-shape-concern
Last edited by M-Tecs; 03-14-2021 at 07:33 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
I am in for one of these. Not interested in the single lube design. I already have the DD version I don't use since there are better options. Also not interested in a bullet that has excess lube capacity even for 30" barrels.
What I am looking for is a maximum accuracy design specifically for ROA for hunting.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 03-14-2021 at 09:41 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
The problems I have is when shooting a black powder revolver and the cylinder starts binding up after 18 rounds because of fouling . I have used the 454-190, Lee 250, rcbs 45-230, and the big lube style bullets.
The big lube style bullets were the best at keeping fouling soft.
Plus the one big lube groove is easier to size and lube in a Lyman 450, compared to the 2 lube groove design.
Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
So most of them are out of cartridge guns?
Don't disagree that for cowboy action over greased helps but it also turns them into a dirty mess. This bullet is specifically designed for C&B revolvers. They are not intend to be sized.
When shooting a C&B revolvers I keep a spritz bottle with moose's milk and a wiping rag to deal with the cylinder fouling.
Are you shooting any C&B revolvers or just BP in cartridge guns?
I am not that serious about cowboy action and I have only shot a 4 different clubs over the years. I have only seen a couple of shooters using C&B in the Frontiersman class. Both of them were using paper cartridges.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
Looks like there is no big interest for latest design in the first post.
Well, because in this corona time I had nothing else to do, here is another try. Since Miha from MP-Molds https://www.mp-molds.com can make molds with different diameters using same cutter, I designed bullet for ROA in a such way that with reduced dia could be used also to make mold for cal. 44 Italian clones:
As you could see, when all 3 grooves are combined, they are almost .160", not far behind BIG LUBE, that has about .180", see http://www.biglube.com/BulletMolds.a...9-68ebfdaba982.
I think that this is more than enough for revolver.
Let me know what do you think.
Last edited by Onty; 04-13-2021 at 05:17 PM.
The original first design was almost perfect except the rebated area is longer than needed. I believe that can be seen in post #17.
Traditional designs that have withstood the test of time over the past 160 years are still around because they worked. The US Civil war produced great technical advances in firearms, projectiles and cartridges systems. They used what worked. That does not mean this technology can't be improved but what is an improvement?
Increased accuracy or ease of loading are two attributes that come to mind.
I really don't care if it's a single grove or double groove but I DO NOT want a design that carries enough lube for a 34" barrel. This bullet is for 7 1/2" barrels or less.
I also DO NOT WANT a bullet that is mostly all undersize as below. Way to much of the bullet is rebated.
Last edited by M-Tecs; 04-13-2021 at 09:58 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
The rebated area it too long for me to be interested in this. Same for the O-ring groove. I am not interested in using O-ring but it could be viewed as lube groove but that begs to ask the question what's the fascinating with equaling the amount of lube in a bullet design that has fallen flat????????
The original design pictured design below worked very very well. The Big Lube stuff not so much. I have several of them and I don't use them for a reason. Are todays lube's not as good?
Last edited by M-Tecs; 04-13-2021 at 09:55 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
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BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
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