Are you ready for the Rapture?

[exile]

"Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him."

Genesis 5:24 (E.S.V.)

exile

[Good Cheer]

Anyone familiar with Dave MacPherson's works concerning the origins of the pre-tribulation rapture theory?

[augercreek]

Check out Johnathan Cahns' you tube videos. I believe his teachings will clarify some issues here.

[Good Cheer]

2Thessalonians
Does it matter who's right about the theory as long as you were chosen from the beginning?
As long as you aren't deluded and believe the lie?

[Good Cheer]

Anyone familiar with Dave MacPherson's works concerning the origins of the pre-tribulation rapture theory?

The ones I've kept are The Incredible Cover-Up and The Rapture Plot.

[1hole]

The ones I've kept are The Incredible Cover-Up and The Rapture Plot.

Anyone wanting to get a glimpse of the when/where/why the pretrib rapture "plot" got started needs to read and understand 1 Thess 4.

[Good Cheer]

Yeah, that's about it. Those who have already died rise first.
Then after that is when those few of us who are still in these meat suits are changed.
When that resurrection of the dead happens is really cut and dried but the many people twisting scripture to make it fit their needs are not going to put down their torque wrenches. With that in mind it would seem the best thing to do is to set the argument aside and pray they don't worship the first christ that shows up.

Fact of the matter is it's a lot more fun to discuss the birthing of the beast system any how. The system comes first and that rascal is getting ready to burst forth from Kane's chest before we know it.

[1hole]

My "cut and paste" is broken so I'll use exile's Thess. post to give a brief pretribulation defense:

"For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Paul had told the church at Thessalonica about the coming Rapture. They accepted the Rapture teaching but members of their group were dying and the living began to fear the already dead were going to miss out. Paul heard about their fear and wrote this second letter to them partly to correct that mistake in their expectations; i.e., Paul told them the dead in Christ will rise first and that information was comforting!

For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words."

This is the Rapture, meaning it's an event to snatch up believers and it seems to occur pre-tribulation - it's a "SURPRISE!" event. Note that there is NOT a word about Christ coming all the way down here to set up his 1,000 year Kingdom on earth at the time, itonly says that believers - the Church - will be called UP into the heavens to be with Him.

The common idea that the Rapture and so called "End of Time as we Know It" is the same event is CLEARLY NOT TRUE!

Time wise, the broad historical sequence the Bible gives us is: Rapture; 7 Years of Tribulation/Great Tribulation; Return of the Lord; 1,000 Kingdom; release of Satan and his final war; seperation of sheep and goats and the Great White Throne Judgements; eternity! Thus, there will be not less than 1,007 years between the Rapture and the final - second death - judgements.

Finally, it's not knowing too much about end times that causes confusion. Confusion is caused by ignorance of the truth and ignorance is caused by too little personal study; seems people who actually know something about Bible prophecy are much less likely to swallow a load of religious B.S. from some half-baked end-times goofus.

[Johnny Diamond]

1hole, I concur wholeheartedly, and see NO need to add or take away!
Johnny.

FINEM RESPICE ~ MEMENTO MORI

[Good Cheer]

Anyone wanting to get a glimpse of the when/where/why the pretrib rapture "plot" got started needs to read and understand 1 Thess 4.

After a few decades of looking at the different theories I've decided that it is divisiveness, that not one of the rapture theories is unambiguously supported by scripture, that the diehard proponents of each theory refuse to relinquish their torque wrenches, that whatever happens is going to be His way and that the toes on my meat suit will likely curl up first.

[1hole]

After a few decades of looking at the different theories I've decided that it is divisiveness, that not one of the rapture theories is unambiguously supported by scripture, ....

You're right that the doctrines of eschatology are not neatly gathered in one small place to simplify it for casual examination by casual people and without study. In fact, that's what Biblical "study" is about as Paul put it to Timothy (2 Tim 5:15) and, by extension, to the rest of us. If all understanding was childishly easy it wouldn't require much "study" at all ... but we are grown ups and study is exactly what we are told to do!

Division comes when one child disagrees with another without a firm foundation. Forcefully proclaiming, "I believe thus and so..." without accurate Biblical support is childish.

... that the diehard proponents of each theory refuse to relinquish their torque wrenches, that whatever happens is going to be His way ...

Doctrinal positions often get established by denominational traditions and/or some established firmly "prophet", often totally devoid of any significant Bible support. Left unchallenged a traditional theory becomes "truth" to its unquestioning followers. THAT is why the religious Jews of Jesus' day rejected their Messiah and THAT was, and still is about a lot of other details, a meaningful mistake!

Thing is, a lot of ideas can be formed on isolated bits of scripture but wrong ideas always leave stray bits that just don't fit the theory. WHEN WE FINALLY GET IT RIGHT ALL OF THE BIBLICAL DATA MUST FIT WITHOUT FORCE! It's taken me decades of study to get my beliefs loose strings to fit together properly.

[Good Cheer]

1hole,
As you are aware I'm not a devotee of pretrib rapture theory. You are and I don't have a problem with that.

[1hole]

1hole,
As you are aware I'm not a devotee of pretrib rapture theory.

I gave a short but focused response to the rapture issue as Paul discussed it in 2 Thess. Now you tell me you're not a devotee of pretrib rapture but you don't say a thing about WHY you're not a pretriib "devotee", OR anything at all about what you do think about the rapture. So, okay, you disagree with me but we already knew that. But, knowing no more about your rapture belief than you disagree with me really doesn't advance your no doubt sincerely held point of view an inch does it?

You are and I don't have a problem with that.

Do we have "a problem"? Heavens no!

Cheer, I believe you're a blood bought brother in Christ. So, even with your obvious theological imperfections (), I would be delighted to share a lengthy huntin', fishin' or Christian mission trip with you.

I fully agree that nothing about theological disagreements with anyone here should or ever would be personally offensive to me.

If respectful and friendly doctrinal disagreements, even while strongly searching for answers, were impossible very few of us would have many church friends. (I have a lot of church friends and I suspect you do too!) Now I ask:

1) What do you believe is the biggest error to a pretrib rapture?
2) What scripture(s) do you base your belief on?

[Good Cheer]

I'm not playing with your wrench.
We need to be ready for when we meet Him.

[Lloyd Smale]

when one trys to tell me how God thinks and has to use big words and fancy talk. I tend to avoid it. God is much more simple then that. I always got a kick out of bible experts preaching on a gun forum. In my opinion it should even be allowed. If you want to argue scripture go to a bible fourm or your preacher. Problem with that is most that post on gun fourm would get burried by someone that really knows. Thats why there here.

[Good Cheer]

I like it because I'm a happy clinger.

[1hole]

... I always got a kick out of bible experts preaching on a gun forum. In my opinion it should even be allowed. If you want to argue scripture go to a bible fourm or your preacher.

Lloyd, if I can follow all that correctly, and IF the "Deep Theology" label on this forum is correct, and if the label with "The Rapture" on this thread tells you anything at all it seems you should know we have done exactly what you have taken the time to suggest.

What puzzles me is why you seem to feel compelled to read and make negative comments on forums, threads, people and topics you profess to object to. It's really easy for people like you to avoid people like us.

You don't even need an "Ignore" feature to prevent yourself from reading anything we post and we won't be offended if you don't. In due respect for your deeply held religious sensitivities, why don't you try that?

[Kosh75287]

Are you SERIOUS?!? I'M not even ready for the rush-hour TRAFFIC that I must face in the morning!
RAPTURE?!?! You want me to ponder the deeper metaphysical and theological implications of the world suddenly ending, while I'M still trying to figure out what makes TEFLON stick to FRYING PANS!?! No more, I BEG YOU!

[1hole]

But Kosh, the Rapture of believers is easy. And heaven will be much better for blood bought Christians than most people understand; that's why I LOVE to talk about it!

The next prophetic event in the Bible is the "Surprise guys, here I am!" rapture. Right then, both "dead" and living Christians get remade and we'll finally be really alive, then, in the twinkling of an eye, we'll all be "caught up" (raptured) and leave to be with Jesus in heaven for at least seven years. During that time nothing that happens back on Earth will have any impact on us.

(After the seven years of Tribulation will be the second coming of the Lord, him along with us, all wearing white choir robes and riding on white horses, to set up His 1,000 year kingdom on earth!)

That's it buddy, that's the sum total of the Rapture to the end in a nutshell. And I do look forward to it!.

[.429&H110]

Don't miss the Boat:
You might sit on the dock waiting for the Boat, and argue with the crowd on the dock about what the Boat will look like or who can get on it. You could sit on the dock and read the Book about the Boat. For me, I want to go find those who might miss the Boat, time is short to reach people who don't know about Jesus, so they can choose or be chosen. I believe the Lord's arrival will settle all doubts and fears. Forever. Soon.

Even so, Lord Jesus come quickly. Amen.