This reality we live in, it's a part of the processing of us from what we were and are into what we can be. Some of us become the desired end product and some will end up on the slag heap. The devil plays its part in making that happen.Originally Posted by lightload
Life is a test.
An often expressed puzzlement but you're asking us to speak for God and we can't honestly do that. Fact is, we just don't know that answer. We do know God has an ultimate plan to deal with evil and His punishments will be fair. We are limited because this is the only life we know so it's hugely important for us to yearn to see evil and hatred constrained and right and love to prevail in the here and now.
That's not yet but I trust the time is coming when we will see and be well satisfied with God's finished plans.
Deuteronomy 30:15-20
English Standard Version
15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil.
16If you obey the commandments of the Lord your God[a] that I command you today, by loving the Lord your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules,[b] then you shall live and multiply, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it.
17 But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them,
18 I declare to you today, that you shall surely perish. You shall not live long in the land that you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess.
19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,
20 loving the Lord your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.”
Scripture admonishes us to live like it. For sure, we are 2000years closer than the Disciples and their hearers.
Micah 6:8
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
"I don't have hobbies - I'm developing a robust post-apocalyptic skill set"
I may be discharged and retired but I'm sure I did not renounce the oath that I solemnly swore!
I ask again, if one is saved and is living as close to the Word as possible, why should one worry about it?
NO ONE lives perfectly.
Why worry about it?
We are one day closer than we were yesterday.
Exactly as I see eschatology! Walk in the light, be cleansed, and stop worrying.
To state the obvious in simple terms, the devil is part of the process and doesn't get the kibosh until time runs out.
It is in God's hands and I trust him so I don't worry about the end times. When today is done it means it will be one day closer.
So we are getting closer to the end times.
Another point of view;
First, eschatology is a large part of the Bible - both the Old and New Testaments - and I don't have the audacity to suggest anyone ignore it.
Two, I love to study the Bible, the whole of it, so I might get a better understanding of God's mind on the path of human history. It seems some folk think salvation is the only important Bible topic we need to study. It doesn't take a lot of study to get that.
Three, and contrary to some people's confused belief, a Christian's interest in eschatology doesn't automatically constitute "worry" about it. Salvation is, or should be a starting point for Bible study, not the end. I've found that the more saved people study and learn about God's plans the less likely they are to worry about things yet to come.
Unlike focusing on a simple grasp of baby's milk of salvation, eschatology does require some serious grown-up study! (Compare the simplicity of John 3:16/17 to 1 Cor 3:1/3)
Studying isn't worry? But it can cause a blurred line at times like loading data.
The bottom line is that God has got this. Either one believes that or not.
If one doesn't believe that then they worry and study to worry more. Trying to see something that will make them worry less but finding more because they like to worry..
One either believes or they don't.
That is established in Genesis when it was said God created the Heavens and the Earth.
If one believes that then they believe God has everything under control
Somewhat can our little selves add to it?
Just like the song. Everything is under control.
What is the parable of the fig tree and why did Jesus say to learn it?
The ax is poised ready to fall .
If one is saved and lives as close to the Bible as one can (no one lives perfectly so let's don't go there) why worry about the ax?
Again, a Biblical "study" of anything is NOT the same as "worry." Christian confusion and worry rises from ignorance of the Word, not from too much knowledge and understanding.
A study of salvation reveals that "living as close to the Bible as one can", as such, is deady, it adds nothing to our salvation by God's grace through faith and trust in Lord Jesus (John 3:17). In fact the "gospel" is the good news that we cannot and need not work to gain salvation; Jesus freely paid the well deserved spiritual death penalty for our secular failures, ALL of them!
Thing is, if we are believers we are saved then no works of our own will cause God to love us any more (Eph 2:8-9). Bottom line, the best of our good works gains us unspecified eternal rewards - and I doubt those rewards will be a small thing - but our earthly good works can never contribute anything at all to our heavenly salvation! (Mt 7:21-23)
Scripture, all of it, was God breathed to the original writers. End times prophecies are a significant part of the Bible. Since God put it in there I must believe He wants us to study it.
Everything should come in its own time. Believe what you will about end times but thinking the study of eschatology is a harmful distraction is effectively saying blissful ignorance of end times is a strength so studying that part of the Bible is an irrelevant waste of time is obviously wrong!
I have to think believing clearly unBiblical illusions (and encouraging others to follow) in Bible study is more than a small step in the wrong direction (1 Tim 2:15).
Your wonderful writing is a great thing. It is good to read such a well thought out and well worded reply.
I think Bible study is a great thing. I wish I were more educated in the Bible such as yourself who no doubt is a testimony to reading and study. One who can explain anything about the Bible right down to the simple minded like myself.
But the question about the end times indicates someone is worried, perplexed or overly concerned over something that God has under control.
He is in control isn't he. So any of our own discussion isn't going to change it is it?
I have complete confidence in God so when it happens it happens.
Again I ask why worry about it
"For behold, in those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all the nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. And I will enter into judgment with them there, on behalf of my people and my heritage Israel, because they have scattered them among the nations and have divided up my land, and have cast lots for my people, and have traded a boy for a prostitute, and have sold a girl for wine and have drunk it."
Joel 3:1-3 (E.S.V.)
exile
Last edited by exile; 06-18-2023 at 08:34 PM.
"There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire. If therefore we yield up our temporal property, we at the same time deliver the conscience into bondage." --John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men. 1776
"The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times." Psalm 12:6 (E.S.V.)
And?
The church is not a building or a denomination. The "church", i.e., the blood bought Bride of Christ, consists of the called out stumbling, fumbling body of fallible but true believers between the Pentecost of Acts the approaching (pre-Tribulation) Rapture of the church; that's US my friends!
God has made many promises to the Jews and He has often been disappointed with the life performance of them. Their many failures have caused them a lot of pain and blood but nothing they've done has been a surprise to God; HE continues to be faithful to his original promises and we have not replaced the Jews (i.e., Judah and Jerusalem) in His eyes.
Failures matter but, when it comes to recounting the failures of religious men, the historical record of the church is no better than that of the Jews. But God remains true to his promises to both the Jews AND the church and we Christians need to remember that.
Sadly, there are many well meaning "modern" Christians who have wrongly swallowed the idea that the Church is the true Israel and therefore God has finished using the (Jewish) bloodline of Abraham. That's wrong because it diminishes the promises and foreknowledge of God. And it doesn't take lot of complex Bible study to prove it's wrong! (Zac 2:8)
Does all that mean we are.living in the end times or near the end time
"And when they had crucified him, they divided his garments among them by casting lots. Then they sat down and kept watch over him there. And over his head they put the charge against him, which read, 'This is Jesus, the King of the Jews.'"
Matthew 27:35-37 (E.S.V.)
"Then one of the twelve, whose name was Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priests and said, 'What will you give me if I deliver him over to you?' And they paid him thirty pieces of silver. And from that moment he sought an opportunity to betray him."
Matthew 26:14-16 (E.S.V.)
exile
Last edited by exile; 06-19-2023 at 12:17 AM.
"There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire. If therefore we yield up our temporal property, we at the same time deliver the conscience into bondage." --John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men. 1776
"The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times." Psalm 12:6 (E.S.V.)
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