Are we living in the end times?

[ioon44]

Welcome Bowdrie, enjoyed your post.

[Alabama358]

Welcome Bowdrie

A couple of questions if you will...

That Damascus, the oldest continuously inhabited city in the world will cease to exist, "they will go to bed at night and in the morning the city is no more". Gone in one night.
No surprise, one of the generals in Israel said a few months ago, "We have to use nukes before it's too late", and they will.
The city of Ammon will go away too, Israel will win this war and take over land and expand their territory.
Now Israel, after 3,000 years, (since King Soloman,) finally feel "Peace and Safety" within their land.

So you are saying Israel is going to evaporate its enemies using thermal nuclear weapons and the world will be okay with that and allow them to claim those lands and declare victory in the war. Furthermore Israel will celebrate and feel "Peace and Safety" within the middle-east community and on the world stage after just scorching its enemies using weapons of mas destruction?
That has to be one of the... I am not sure what to even say

Now we get to Gog-Magog, as opposed to countries that shared a border with Israel, none of the Gog-Magog countries share a border.
Remember the passage, (paraphrasing,) "I shall put a hook in his mouth and draw him down"?
Right, old Gog already has the hook in him that God told us about, how's that you say?
Well, for the first time in recorded history Russia has now entered into a compact with Iran and Turkey, their already sending more forces into Syria and by golly, even to the West Bank.

I think your timing is off by about 1,000+ years for the Battle of Gog and Magog according to Revelation 20 (see below)

Revelation 20:7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


Other then that, you are right... we are indeed living in curious times!

[Bowdrie]

I only wrote what many, (me to,) have interpreted to mean when Scripture assures us that Damascus will be totally destroyed in one night.
How would you do that?
With huge bomber fleets?, No they couldn't do that in WWII with a 1,000-plane raid.
They certainly can't do it today with a few F15s/F16s carrying conventional weapons.
We also can read that where the area of Elam is, is where much of the nuke stuff that Iran has, and the Scripture says that the people will flee that area, it'll become untenable.
Have no doubt, when 50,000 Hezbollah come across the northern border, and Syria also, and the west bank forces attack, and the Jordanian and Egyptian forces come from the south the "Iron Dome" system will be completely overwhelmed and facing annihilation, Israel will "push the button".
They've said they will, they've also said that they will NEVER allow Iran to have a nuke device.
At latest intelligence, (that's released,) Iran has enough material to construct 6 devices, and months ago Iran told the world that the new missiles they have can reach Jerusalem in, (hold your hat,) 666 seconds.
Also for the first time, Israel now has their own in-flight refueling capability to reach "Elam" and return.
Yes, Damascus and some other places will become nuked.
The idea that "oh my, nobody would ever use nukes in this civilized world, would they"?
Of course they will.
Ok, the Gog-Magog?
If you read Ezkiel 37/38 and the Rev verses, you'll find the context is totally different, same names/different context.
In Revelation you see that the Satan gathers the participants from the "four corners" AND Gog-Magog to lead a rebellion.
You find a totally different scenario/context in Ezkiel.
Also, we should remember that Gog is simply a title, like saying "Senator" or "The Honorable" or "Leader".
And Magog simply means "From the North" or "The North Lands"
Taken together, we might say; "the leader of the north people".
As a broader statement, we could say; Everything from the "Stan"-countries to Finland, and everything that used to compose the old Soviet Bloc nations, even Ukraine would be included.
Anyway, as kind of a wrap-up, The "Psalm 83" war with the "border" countries, (Psalm 83/Isaiah 17/Jeremiah 49,) is one in which the attackers want ALL THE JEWS KILLED, NO MORE ISRAEL.
In contrast, the Gog-Magog, (Ezkiel 37,) is one in which the attackers "Come to take the spoil".
What is "the spoil"?
The "spoil" is one of the largest offshore oil deposits, the likes of which is seldom found in such a small area.
But hey, God told us about it over 3,000 years ago, the oil was found offshore of the part of Israel that was given to the tribe of Asher.
Deuteronomy 33:24.

[Bowdrie]

As an addendum, In that verse 9 in Rev, John writes about *compassed the camps and beloved city.*
In the Ezkiel 37/38 war there is NO "compassed/encompassing" God destroys them before they even get close.

[Thundarstick]

I keep reading this thread for the humor. I find it humors how many times throughout history men have had it all figured out when the Son of God stated, "the angels in heaven nor even the Son don't know the day"!

[Bowdrie]

That verse about, "No one knows the day or the hour,,,,,,,,but the Father only" has become a hackneyed catch-all, it's one of those lines that's taken out of context, and it's an easy cop-out to toss it around.
It's like those who endlessly say, "Yep, Jesus will come "someday"", "someday" is a superficial word that has no real meaning, it's like if someone asked you, "Where does Joe live", and you waved your hand in a vague direction and replied, "Somewhere out there".
Did Jesus know? but of course He knew, He said "You have seen me, you have seen the Father, I and the Father are one".
Remember, Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. It's impossible for us to completely understand that, but when He spoke those words to his disciples He was "speaking as/the "man".
Also, Jesus NEVER said we wouldn't know the "Season" or even the year.
Amos 3:7 is a good starting point, and in Daniel 12:9 we clearly see that "end times things" would NOT be seen or understood until we were actually in The End Times.
It's common to reference things as a BC/AD time event, but that's not God's way. In God's calendar/timeline for humanity there is one central point, it's the "Cross Event", that's the dividing line between "animal blood/the law" and "Jesus's blood that was acceptable to God as payment for sin".
That said, now go to Hosea 6:1>2, it's clear that the Messiah/Jesus shall return after two days, (two thousand years).
Immediately after Jesus died on the cross bad things started happening to Israel, the flame wouldn't stay lit, the temple doors wouldn't stay closed, the veil was rent, dead people came out of the graves and walked around, and things only went downhill until finally the Romans destroyed the temple, killed ~a million people and effectively ended Israel as a nation.
Hosea 6:1 is a brief description of that time period., (That time period is NOT separated outside of Hosea 6:2,) that period is inside of the "two days".
In other words, the "two days/two thousand years" includes the time between the Cross and the destruction by the Romans.
I have absolutely zero knowledge of "day or hour". Between the cross event and the ascension was 40 days.
But I do believe that exactly 2,000 years from one of the days between the cross and ascension that Jesus will physically come back down to this earth.
And I do believe that the physical landing of Jesus is at the end of the 7-year tribulation.
Of course, anybody is welcome to their own beliefs and interpretations, and I'm immensely relieved that no matter what any of us think about days, hours, weeks, months, years, it is not a salvational issue.
We're instructed to "Rightly divide the Word of Truth", and I suppose that sometimes we use different numerators/denominators in our "dividing", (that's why theirs's a million denominations),

[Alabama358]

The idea that "oh my, nobody would ever use nukes in this civilized world, would they"?
Of course they will.

lol, I don't think (as you say) I insinuated "oh my, nobody would ever use nukes in this civilized world"
In fact Israel has nukes and will use them.

It is the fantasy that Israel will just vaporize their enemies using Nukes or any other WMD, and after said annihilation the entire world, Middle East, United Nations etc. will stand by and be supportive of this action, telling them.... just go ahead and take the land and tell us where you would like to redraw your borders.
That is laughable, Israel can not even get full support for some good ole fashion butt kicking in Southern Gaza.

Then you think Israel will immediately move into a feeling of peace and safety and be at rest. So much so they will tear down their walls, remove the bars from their windows and gates.(Iron Dome system, bomb shelters that are in most every house) You know just like in Ezekiel 38. Right?

Ezekiel 38:11
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

The above sounds more like an Israel at rest after a 1,000 year reign of Christ... you know just like the Good Book tells in Revelation 20...

Is it possible the 2 books (the only 2 parts of the entire bible referencing Gog and Magog) are prophesying 600 years apart about the same battle? spoiler ALERT....its the same battle

Ok, the Gog-Magog?
If you read Ezkiel 37/38 and the Rev verses, you'll find the context is totally different, same names/different context.
In Revelation you see that the Satan gathers the participants from the "four corners" AND Gog-Magog to lead a rebellion.
You find a totally different scenario/context in Ezkiel.
Also, we should remember that Gog is simply a title, like saying "Senator" or "The Honorable" or "Leader".
And Magog simply means "From the North" or "The North Lands"
Taken together, we might say; "the leader of the north people".
As a broader statement, we could say; Everything from the "Stan"-countries to Finland, and everything that used to compose the old Soviet Bloc nations, even Ukraine would be included.

It is interesting that you describe Gog and Magog as a simple title commonly used. ( I think this is common for folks that have watched to many re-runs of un-biblical movies like "left behind" or that money huckster Dr. Jeremiah's new movie "The Great Disappearance" or the multitudes of books with the same narrative.)

So if it is only mentioned 2 times in the entire Bible (as a great battle where the LORD rains down fire and brimstone from heaven destroying great multitudes of his enemies) Revelation 20 and Ezekiel 38

Option 1: Revelation 20 and Ezekiel 38 are both prophesying (roughly 600 years apart) about the same battle in the latter years after the 1,000 year reign of Christ

Option 2: There are two Completely separate battles of Gog and Magog. One before The LORDS 1,000 year reign and then a repeat after his 1,000 year reign



Ezekiel 38
16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

Revelation 20
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Same Event... 2 prophets, prophesying the same battle... One written in Hebrew and one written in Greek, 600 years apart.

*The book of Ezekiel having some short range and long range (dual) prophetic implications as the people were being held in captivity in Babylon at the time of its writing and were later freed and returned to their land fulfilling the short term part.

[Bowdrie]

No, they don't, (as you put it,) "vaporize their enemies".
They will use what we call "tactical" devices, and they only blow-up a couple of places.
I still maintain your "Option 2".
It's in the wording, Ezkiel speaks of a "hook in the jaw" that brings down the "Gog-Magog"
Revelation speaks of "Satan being loosed", and gathering people from the four corners.
There is nothing in the wording of those passages that have any connection with each other except for the use of the Gog-Magog term, and that term is widely known as being a symbolic reference to "the leader and his people of the North"
The name Magog was originally known as the land that started at the "Steppes" and went north from there.
You mention Ezkiel 38:11, yes, they will feel safe after they have beaten down the countries that border them and reclaimed land that they have not possessed since King David.
What you describe as a country living at rest at the end of the millennial reign of Jesus is NOT the same as what Israel has in land area after this coming war.
No, during the millennial time the borders of Israel will encompass the entire section of the Mideast that God promised Abraham, and that is far more land than they will have even before or after the Isiah 17/Jerimiah 49/Psalm 83 war, or the Ezkiel 37>38 war.
And no, I've not seen those movies nor read those books.
"Israel can't get support for butt-kicking"?
The scriptures plainly say the "Israel shall become a cup of trembling to all nations".
Right now, all nations have turned on them. Just last week the US abstained from a vote in the UN.
Israel now stands alone, all the UN votes against them.
Another point, "The Latter Days" ARE NOT at the end of the millennial reign.


Your option 2 are the cards on the table.

[Alabama358]

No, they don't, (as you put it,) "vaporize their enemies".
They will use what we call "tactical" devices, and they only blow-up a couple of places.

What we call "tactical nukes" indeed vaporize their targets (100 million degrees Celsius at its center, about four to five times that which occurs at the center of the Sun)

You mention Ezkiel 38:11, yes, they will feel safe after they have beaten down the countries that border them and reclaimed land that they have not possessed since King David.
What you describe as a country living at rest at the end of the millennial reign of Jesus is NOT the same as what Israel has in land area after this coming war.

It is not what i describe as living in rest. It is what Ezekiel 38:11 says the condition of Israel will be at the time of the battle of Gog and Magog.

If you use Ezekiel 38 as the basis for a battle of Gog and Magog in the very near future then you must expect to see Israel living at rest, in total peace with no walls nor bars nor gates also in the very near future... as stated in the same Ezekiel 38

...and you think this level of peace and rest will take place directly after they have just used tactical nukes to destroy their enemies and the UN and virtually the whole world is against them. Critical thinking would weigh highly against that.


Ezekiel 38:11
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

Your option 2 are the cards on the table.

We will have to agree to disagree here.

[Good Cheer]

About the end times...
Those of you who have been watching the ramp up over the last few decades or so in the process of bringing essentially the whole world to the brink of, oh shall we employ a pleasant euphemism and say significant population reduction, have you ever suspected that the people who are actually running the show know that their enemy Christ is returning and that they are working to accomplish their master's purposes before Christ shuts it down?

[Nines&Twos]

I'm not convinced either way, totally....but I lean toward kenites don't really know who they are so much as follow a genetic program for their father's work. For even they are welcome to partake of the Blood of Christ and be a child of our Father.

A 'significant population reduction' as you say would certainly pave smooth the road for ten kings from seven lands to rise from a sea of people and take hold. Fools will allow anything if it removes death from the option list. Threaten a man's flesh and he gets the dumb real quick.

Christ shuts it down you say....this was never taught in the church I was lied to..err uhh raised in.....Christ will shut it down alright...with a rod of iron.
How many times are we referred to as The Father's children? John affectionately used the term Little Children several times.........Soon the disciplinarian returns and Proverbs 22:15 comes to full fruition. I may be taking a few licks from it too...if so...I will thank him for the opportunity to be corrected by someone who loves me enough to correct me. How many will rebel against the coming education? One hopes the numbers are low but I'll be glad to see them go.

[Good Cheer]

Good morning Nines&Twos.
If you feel the need for a knee slapper, in the march towards meaningful population reduction Macron has called for their war industries to be ramped up green and sustainably. As funny as these functionaries are I'm pretty well convinced that those people who are struggling to manage the planet know that their enemy Christ is coming back to shut down their show and that they're getting into a bit of an incompetent tizzy over trying to get their hermaphroditic master's bidding completed. That's in accordance with my observations and my theology. I have to appreciate the power of theological understandings to flavor the perceptions of events in ones life but then I think uh no, they really are evil puppets from which I conclude indicates the presence of the puppeteer.

[Nines&Twos]

Do puppets know they have strings? ...I'm not taking up for them...the tares are kindling for a lake of fire. I do have to wonder...HOW MUCH of the TRUTH did the people REALLY know as the yelled crucify HIM. Everything went according to Father's plan as everything always does BUT...did they all know...or was the puppeteer just doing it's* thing?


* Funny you call him a hermaphrodite. That would explain much. From how he deceived both sexes of Eth Ha Adam to how he's yanking the strings of these modern day ...don't know what their own parts are...fruitcakes. Being a hermaphrodite would let "he" be more appropriately called "it" ....and "it" will stand where "it" ought not.....will "it" not? ...that's a compelling thought but Moffat's translation will stand. ...standing where he ought not.

[Good Cheer]

In answer to your question I've no doubt many of them know exactly who they serve.

[exile]

"Pray for the peace of Jerusalem! May they be secure who love you!"

Psalm 122:6 (E.S.V.)

exile