Shortage of Caps/Primers

[LAGS]

That cap maker works really good and is well worth the money , IMO
It is easy to use , and makes a very usable primer cup.
I know , I have the exact one.

[ofitg]

You may have a point about the amount of pressure that I apply to compressing the compound.
I never put any kind of scale on my press handle.
Cause , I don't think many guys on this forum would have a scale to duplicate my procedures.
I am trying to keep my testing and Assembling of the primers Simple and not some Rocket Science project.
I want to be able to Help the average guy to deal with this shortage or just get the Basic Knowledge to do some things on their own.
That is why I try to work with Simple and available tools and materials.

Fortunately, I don't think the exact force is very important. According to one of my books, BP manufacturers compress the loose "meal" powder with 1200 PSI to form the hard dense pucks - evidently 1200 PSI is sufficient to make the sulfur go "colloidal" and bind everything together. If you're pulling down on the drill press handle with 10 pounds of force, you're subjecting the H48 to approximately 6000 PSI of pressure..... even 5 pounds of pull on the drill press handle should be more than enough. I expect that the average guy could "guess-timate" the pull and get it somewhere within the range of 5 to 20 pounds.

[LAGS]

With further investigation , I found that pressing my primer compound only Bound the edges.
It formed a Pill with the center still being powder.
The ones that I had put a drop of Binder on After they were pressed were the same , but Way more Durable.
So my next test is to put the priming compound in the cup.
Then add a drop of the binder.
Then press the Damp compound and see if it still holds together better.
Or if the Binder fully penetrates all of the compound and still fires with the same power or flash.
I am glad I have the time to play with this stuff right now.
And I appreciate any suggestions or input that you can supply.

[LAGS]

I did the tests on the primer cups and some .22 LR primed casings.
I let the binder dry inside the house for two hours.
All primers went off no problem.
Yes,
I do reload my own .22 LR's
I started that back in the Ammo Shortage in 2008

[TheOutlawKid]

My primers can be put through heavy abuse and not fall apart. I use duco cement thinned out heavily with acetone. Once i put the primer mix into the cap i then put a drop of the binder...let it sit for about 3-5 minutes for it to.absorb and start hardening and then i place a 5/16 inch rice paper disk over the primer powder and press down on it using the end of a allen wrench that fits into the cup. The reason to wait 3-5 minutes is to allow the binder to dry out a bit and harden a little . it isnt yet hardened but isnt mushy, its made the primer "damp" enough to stick to the rice paper on and the primer is hard enough kinda like play dough so you can compress it with a dowel or tool of choice. I use an allen wrench bit from a screw driver set. The rice paper also keeps the primer sealed and in place and helps protect it. It also burns up completely when exploded and wont clog nipples like you see on store brand caps whos paper disk can clog nipples.

[LAGS]

I will have to give the Rice Paper a try.
I have used thin paper discs when loading my .22s.
But I often would find the disc sitting in the barrel after being fired.

[ofitg]

LAGS – You got my curiosity going, and I had some time to kill, so I pressed a few more H48 caps.
The empty hulls were formed from soft disposable pie pan aluminum, using an old original Forster Tap-O-Cap. I used a small pistol primer cup for a powder measure – that’s adequate priming for a percussion revolver – but it might not be enough for a sidelock percussion rifle, so I “double charged” some of them (pressed down one H48 charge, then added another H48 charge and pressed it down on top of the first one).
Instead of using the hanging scale to measure the force, I replaced one of the “spokes” on the drill press operating handle with a 13” length of threaded rod – that’s a seven-pound weight hanging on the end of the rod – I estimate that the H48 will be subjected to around 10k PSI of pressure. The brass tube around the rod enables me to slide the weight back toward the hub of the operating handle, reducing the force to almost zero when I need to remove the pressed cap and install another un-pressed cap under the drill’s chuck.



Here’s a close-up of the 0.157” steel rod fully engaged with the aluminum cap hull. Note that the cap hull is sitting on top of a thick steel platform -



Poking at the pressed H48 pellets with a safety pin, I couldn’t tell that the centers were any softer than the outer edges…. If anything, it might have been just the opposite – the outer edges seemed slightly crumbly. Did you discover the flaking/crumbling after your caps were subjected to the vibratory cleaner? I don’t have a vibratory cleaner so I can’t try it – it’s certainly possible that the vibratory cleaner is more “brutal” than letting the caps bounce around inside the rubber drum of my rock tumbler.

The nitrocellulose/acetone binder used by you and Outlaw Kid sounds like a big improvement over the liquid shellac I have used in the past. A “humidity seal” wouldn’t hurt, the quick drying time is fantastic, and it adds enough durability to survive your vibratory cleaner!

[Idz]

If you have lathe and minimal skill I made a capmaker several years ago described in: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...ighlight=guide

I made a larger version for musket caps too which may not be in that post but can post the info if any are interested.

[LAGS]

@ofitg.
The caps in the vibrator crumbled around the edges and then a pill of compressed primer compound fell out.
But you are correct about the vibrator being very harsh on the primers , and is way more force than you would have on a Can of caps rattling in your bag or pocket.
But the binder did help greatly and no crumbling was seen.
But the ones that I had placed the binder on top as a sealer after they were pressed still were crumbly if you peeled the metal cap off them.
So far , the ones pressed After adding the binder seemed to be solid almost all the way thru , as well as stuck to the metal cap.
So far using the small primer cap scoop works well in my single shot pistols.
I haven't had a chance to try them in my rifles yet.
It is just TOO Hot to go to the range here.
But just by the sound and the shape of the Fired Cap Metal , I think the Large primer cup scoop will be plenty to fire off a rifle consistently.

[TheOutlawKid]

For my caps i use .005 copper. Its the best i have found to make caps. They stay whole and contain the explosion more as to keep the gasses going into the nipple. When they pop they just spread out into a disk instead of little pieces. I get mine at hobby lobby and use the 40% discount coupon. Heres the link to the roll of 36 gauge (.005) copper. They also have a same size copper sheet but its softer..get the stiffer version. No more soda pop or pie pans. You can also get the same gaue brass but its way stiffer but those cap hulls can usually be reused. The copper ones can as well if u make the priming compound weaker or use roll caps insead
https://www.hobbylobby.com/Crafts-Ho...r-Roll/p/21910

[TheOutlawKid]

Heres the brass sheet. Stuff is great too
https://www.hobbylobby.com/Crafts-Ho...l-Roll/p/23396

[TheOutlawKid]

Mr.idz...im no way capable of making a cap maker nor own a lathe. By any chance would i be able to buy a musket cap maker from you?

[LAGS]

I use to use the copper sheet years ago to make my caps.
I actually prefer it over Soda Cans or the Aluminum.
I have been mostly using the cheaper ( Free) materials lately because I want to post materials that are available to almost everybody.
And with shortages of everything popping up all the time, you need a item and tested procedure to fall back on if the times get tougher.

[LAGS]

I swung by Hobby Lobby and picked up a roll of the copper sheeting.
Lucky I have two Hobby Lobby's closer than 5 miles from me.
One was out of the rolls , but the other store had it.
So far , the copper makes a good cup in my primer maker.
They really come out nicely shaped after I push them thru my Home made refining tool.
This copper is soft and easy to work with.
The copper I used years ago was the same thickness but came in a Sheet that was a little harder . The stuff I use to use was scrap from a guy that did Engraving inlays on copper sheeting, like embossed pictures.
The strip of this softer stuff does seem to hang up in my primer maker.
But isn't anything I can't deal with.

On my way home , I stopped by a LGS.
Their shelves were almost empty of ammo , no reloading stuff , and their gun racks were almost empty.
Maybe now would be a good time to sell them a bunch of my surplus rifles and load of safe queens

[dave951]

http://blackpowderva.com/

Jackie still has caps and powder in stock. I just got 3k RWS musket caps and 20lbs of 3f. He's a small guy but a supplier of the North South Skirmish Association and since our shoots have been mostly cancelled, his sales are off. Give him a call and support the little guy. Jackie runs an active farm, if you don't get through immediately, leave a message and he WILL get back to you.

[TheOutlawKid]

Mr. LAGS im glad the copper worked out for you. They also have a brass in that size that works great too but its stiffer. But i love the copper...its my go to material for caps.

[LAGS]

The Copper and Brass worked out great with one minor exception on my end.
Like you said , the two make a stiffer cup.
I had to make another punch that expanded the brass and copper cups a little bit with a slight taper so the empty cup would slide down on the Nipple a little better.
The way the firmer cups came out of the primer maker were too tight and didn't always fire on the first hit.
The punch I made was tapered a little bit and was more the shape of the nipple cone.
I just fit each cup over the tapered punch to check sizing before I put in the priming compound.
Since checking the sizing on my copper cups , I have had All primers fire on the first hit.
The Aluminium cups did not need to be checked because the Aluminium was soft enough to expand enough and let the primer slide down the nipple to fire on the first hit.

[TheOutlawKid]

I use the cap maker from ".22 reloader", and the caps they make dont fit aftermarket nipples like slixshot....but they fit stock pietta and the smaller RMC stainless nipples that only fit CCI #10s. So if im gonna shoot homemade caps i have to switch out my slixshot nipples for stock or RMC nipples...im trying to find someone who can make me a cap maker that will make the larger musket caps...but so far havent found anyone

[LAGS]

To widen out the caps that you make ,
Just take a piece of 1/4" rod or bolt and spin it in your drill motor and file it down to the size of your nipples. ( Poor man's Lathe )
Then just place the cap on a flat surface and tap the rod into your cups.
I use the 22 reloader cap maker also.
I just can't seem to justify buying a Whole New Cap Makers when I can make up a small item to cure certain issues.
I also drilled a hole into a piece of 1/2" steel that I pound the caps thru to swedge down the outsides and square up the end of the cup at the same time as opening up or reforming the inside part of the cup.
The rod I filed down is .170 diameter with a taper down to about .160 at the very top.
The hole in the 1/2" steel is drilled with a 13/64 " drill bit and the starter side is smoothed out with a tapered reamer to make starting the primer cups in easier.

[TheOutlawKid]

Yeah ive widened the caps in the past...actually once shot brass cups that stay whole widen out perfectly to be used on aftermarket nipples...i just prefer to make use of my stock nipples..and since the stuff is really corrosive i dont like using my good nipples. Ive never tried making the caps big enough to be musket caps though..
Not sure if it will leave enough skirting behind after adding the primer mix.