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Thread: Goex FFFg for 43 Mauser?

  1. #1
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    Goex FFFg for 43 Mauser?

    I have been hand loading, casting, etc all of my adult life. But I just bought my first bp cartridge rifle, a 71 Mauser. So I am going down this road for the first time.
    I now have a Lyman mould that cast a nice looking bullet, a handful of brass given to me made with 45-90 brass, and dies. I still need to get over powder wads, different black powder, better lube.
    So my question, since I am anxious to see this thing smoke, is I have Goex FFFg on hand for my muzzle loaders (which are 50 and 54 cal). Is this too fine to use for the 43 Mauser?
    I read that Swiss 1 1/2 is very popular, and plan to buy some. But until then, would like to try what I have on hand .
    I also have Pyrodex RS, but I use it to make noise makers only. I guess this is an option too?
    Lube, I need to buy SPG but may try whatever I have on hand, blue carnuba. I also have CVA Patch and Bullet lube in a tube.
    Thanks, Dan

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    I have had good success with Olde Eynsford 1 1/2F in cartridges like this. Pressure tests showed the 1 1/2F loads have pressures very close to,or the same as original service loads, the 3F would overpressure by at least 20%, although accuracy was still good.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    How are you set for dies? Do you have the right size? Lee dies are small, the expander is for a .439 and no flare. You really want a 446 or bigger. Most dies out there resize for a 439. I just got a set from CH 4D which are made to shoot a 446 bullet;444 expander. You can do a good fudge job with 44-77 dies if you have them.

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    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Olde Eynsford 1 1/2 or 2f would likely be a better choice, as it works so very well in the 44-77.
    The Lee 43 Mauser dies work fine for a .446/7 bullet.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

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    Hmmm, I just bought a set of Lee dies. They are new, maybe they have changed dimension? Why would they make dies undersize if they don't work well?
    My Lyman mould drops nice looking bullets that measure .449-.450.
    My plan, which could change, is once I get ammo loaded and fire form it, to not resize at all. And just seat bullets by hand. This was advised to me by friend that used to shoot bpcr matches.

    I don't have a lathe, but I do have a drill press, and may be able to open up the sizing die a small bit. But I can't make a expander bigger. I wonder if I have another set of dies that may work (don't have 44-77), and I would rather shoot unsized.

    Thanks for the tips so far, Dan

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    What is the groove diameter of your rifle barrel?
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don McDowell View Post
    What is the groove diameter of your rifle barrel?
    .456, with lands at .436. I used cerrosafe for chamber casting, but did not push anything completely through the bore, so that may not be a great measurement.

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    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Sounds like a good candidate for a rebarrel job.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

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    Why do you suggest that?

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    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Because of the large difference between the groove and the bore, that's going to give you fits. With a .456 groove, the bore should be something closer to .448
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

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    The 43 mauser is not really a target rifle. All my experience is with rifles like this, I am not a target shooter. So I do not have to go to the ends of the earth to get the nth degree of accuracy. If my rifle shoots 3" at 100 yards with my "well used" eyes, I'm OK with that.

    My own favorite single shot hunting rifle does just this. It is 450/468 - almost like the OP's rifle. If it was mine I'd shoot a 436 slick with two wraps of 16lb paper, and if the barrel is any good inside, it ought to shoot 3" if you know how to build ammo right.
    The alloy I usually use is 1 in 15, plenty ductile to obturate that amount with black (I don't use smokeless). Keep the antimony out of it. Expands wonderfully in a deer with a small hollow point.

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    I'm gonna try it as is. The bore is mirror shiny, looks almost like new. I may not have a good bore measurement. I made the chamber casting for chamber measurements, I will try to get a better bore measurement this weekend.

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    I've seen a lot of those 71's with mirror bores. A papered bore diameter bullet will shoot in your rifle for sure.
    The original shells had papered bullets.
    There's a guy on GB sells correct weight bullets already wrapped, you might try a box to see how they work before buying any more molds.
    Last edited by curdog007; 07-07-2020 at 10:15 PM.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    With the bore and groove dimensions so far apart 3 ft groups at 100 yards might be doing good.
    The suggestion to use a bore diameter patched bullet might be a good one but with those deep grooves it's still going to be a gamble on where the bullet might go after it clears the muzzle.
    While I do quite a bit of target shooting in competition, I also use bpcr's to hunt with, for many rifles the same load I feel confident in taking to a match is also the same load that can drop an antelope at 135 yards or an elk at just a hair over 200.. Loading for accuracy isn't the big process that some seem to think it is, but it does get difficult in some of these old rifles with the large bore groove variations.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

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    I just got another set of Lee dies. I measured the ex-pander and it is 0.444 inch. I bought Lee dies in 11mm years ago when they first came out and the ex-pander was 0.439. That is a tight fit for a 446 to 448 bullet. I found the same to be true with RCBS and LYMAN dies. I have publicly and openly whined and complained for years. It seems that every body thought 43 Spanish and 43 Mauser are the same. They are not. I was over joyed when 44-77 Sharps dies floated by and I grabbed them. An ex-pander and neck sizer that were correct. Then I discovered C&H4D had dies in stock made to shoot 446 bullets, with flaring on the ex-pander. So, I am finally happy.
    What bullet are your shooting? the 446110? good choice, the RCBS 44-370 is also good. You may want something under that bullet if your grooves are that big.
    Once you test drive it, I might could send you a bullet sampler. lol I have a few in that size.
    You might want to get a proper shell now before the Lee breaks and ruins your weekend. I've had several break.
    best of luck

  16. #16
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    not for nothin, but a guy is selling a set a 43 mauser (11mm) right now in the swap and sell forum. He points out that the expander is a 437". It pretty hard to load a 446->448 bullet in a 437 hole. I have tried it many times. best luck

  17. #17
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    My barrel is about the same, these were designed for a soft lead paper patched bullet and will not chamber a groove sized bullet. I have used two bullets with good success. The Lee 45-70 405 grain hollowbase works great. It will not chamber unless you run it through a .451 bullet sizer, even then it is going to be a little too tight so I run the loaded case up into the sizing die and they will chamber. I now use the Accurate 45-370Y it is a heeled design with a .455 front and a .44 heel. The .44 heel is a little loose in my cases and I run the case mouths up into a .270 sizer and it tightens them up, then flare and seat bullet. I should have specified a .446sh heel.


    Added 7-12-2020
    After reading Ascast's comments about expander's in Lee dies I checked mine, it was .442. I chucked it up in a drill and using a diamond file cut it down to .439. Neck sized a couple cases and they held the 45-370Y perfectly, should of figured that out a long time ago
    Last edited by hpbear101; 07-12-2020 at 11:26 AM.

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    Never thought of 3F in the Mauser and it does make me curious. I have been using 1.5F OE with good results. I had two 71's (not 71-84s) and the one I kept is a pretty good shooter but the bore was far bigger than most of the "43 Mauser" boolets and molds being sold. I ended up finding some .450 or .451 boolets from a friend that worked quite well and ended up having Accurate Molds make me a custom mold.
    “Tradition is not to preserve the ashes but to pass on the flame”

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    I think you will be fine using 3fg powder; adjust the charge downward somewhat to compensate, and use a soft filler like foam backer rod to take up empty space in the shoulder area if needed--don't seat a wad below the neck.

    Fwiw, I shoot Berdan II rifles, and like many 19th Century military single shot rifles, the grooves are quite deep compared to the lands--.442"/.432", designed for soft lead paper patch bullets that obturate into the grooves, yet chamber easily in fouled barrels. Bullets are patched to .430".
    Breaking down original Russian 10.66x57r cartridges showed they contained a fine grained BP, most like current Goex 3fg in grain size, so I usually shoot the 3fg with great results, easily achieving published military velocities with the same wt bullet, with of course somewhat less powder, as modern cases have less capacity.
    Last edited by fgd135; 07-13-2020 at 10:37 AM.

  20. #20
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    I can't speak to Mod. 71's but I do have considerable experience with the 11.15 X 60R. Mine is chambered in a Goldmann, double rifle. I HAD to shoot 3F over a 5 gr. kicker of SR-4759 to get enough velocity for the barrels to regulate. My bullet is the Lyman bullet but I do like the RCBS better...except it's too heavy to regulate in my rifle. A straight load of 3F in your '71 should be fine.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check