Thank you for sharing. That’s some fine velocity from your 38-44 HD. That 6.0 grs and 358156GC is a good duplicate of the late 38-44 factory loadings, very accurate with enough power for me.Originally Posted by RJM52
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Thank you for sharing. That’s some fine velocity from your 38-44 HD. That 6.0 grs and 358156GC is a good duplicate of the late 38-44 factory loadings, very accurate with enough power for me.
Last edited by Hi-Speed; 11-27-2020 at 07:26 PM.
Finally chronographed loads in my 38/44 Outdoorsman with 11.5 grains of Alliant 2400 and Lyman's 160 grain RFN at 1150 F.P.S.. Think that will be good enough in the ball park for the old girl.
I think I am going to make the 6.0/UNIQUE my standard load. I may experiment some with AAC-9 but for what I use a .38 Special for the 1100 fps will due nicely...
That 6.0gr/Unique gives a complete burn in a 4" bbl.
I HATE auto-correct
Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.
My Experience and My Opinion, are just that, Mine.
SASS #375 Life
I have tried Elmers load of 13.5 grs of 2400 using his swc (173 gr) loaded in 38 special cases . I found I had better accuracy using 12.0 grs , same powder . Maybe if I would of kept shooting the Keith load I might of improved . These were shot out of a model 28 HP , 6" barrel .
I did just that last Friday with my transition OD, but with 5.5 gr. Herco & a Zero 158 JSP.
Shot a steel man silhouette at 140 yds. Wife spotting for me thought I was nuts. Got boring after a while and then took head shots and made 3 out of 10 RDS. Used J word to smooth out bore. No issues afterward. Hard not to love those old Smiths.
Bob
Love seeing the 38 be all it can be!
Larry, did you ever get a chance to test 200gr 357 loads?
Not yet.
Larry Gibson
“Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
― Nikola Tesla
question/ ive never seen or even heard of a 38-44, must be very hard to come by, how does it differ from 357-44 Bain Davis? 1/8" shorter shell?
The 38-44 S&W revolvers were simply a .38 Special built on an N-frame (hence the .44 part). They were intended to be fired with heavy loads, primarily for use by LEOs. This was done in the days before the .357 Mag cartridge was developed.
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thanks for clearing this up for me
Just looking at these velocities again...any thoughts on the 7 fps difference between the 4" HD which is chambered for .38 Special and the 6.5" Model 27 that is chambered for .357...maybe the cylinder gap...
There are a number of possibilities. First, there will be differences even in guns made on the same day, much less than years apart. A tighter barrel, a rougher bore, larger cylinder throats, larger or smaller barrel-cylinder gaps, ambient temperature, even a weaker hammer spring can all have an impact on muzzle velocity. The longer 357 chambers will generally rob some velocity, compared to the same load fired in a 38 special chamber.
Secondly, most chronographs are only accurate to about .05% and it can, depending on type, vary according to daylight intensity. .05 x 1121 is 56 fps, if even a couple of shots in a string fall on the low or high side, it can skew the results. Finally, simple sampling variances can account for the seeming closeness. Assume that the chronograph is dead nuts on, reading exactly right. Say each gun in shooting this load has a standard deviation of 19, which is actually pretty good for a revolver. If the five (or 10) shots in each sample happened to come from the bottom of normal range of the six inch, while those of the HD 38-44 came from the top end of its normal range, they might easily get this close, or even overlap.
One can normally expect about 25 fps per inch of difference of barrel length in magnum revolvers. However, every gun is its own master. Sometime, read chapter 18 in Speer Number 14. It is reprint from Number 9, entitled "Why ballisticians get gray.." Amongst other guns, they test fired 9 different Six Inch 357 revolvers and found an extreme spread of 282 fps between the slowest and fastest averages. The extreme spread of the test ammo was less than 40 in their test barrel. So even with the chambers supposedly the same, and the barrel lengths nominally identical, the difference between guns was over 7 times what the expected extreme variance for that ammo was.
The author details over a dozen factors that could affect the reported velocity. Anyway, it is not a shock that these two revolvers measure similar velocities. Nor would it be a great surprise if they measured even greater disparity between one revolver and the other. That is just the sort of statistical variance to be expected.
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I have noticed that I get consistently higher velocities from a .38spl chamber than from a .357 Magnum chamber with .38spl brass. Not in any way predictable but generally over several different guns a small advantage to properly chambered .38spl over longer Magnum chambers.....
Thanks Larry...a great post with some surprises in it. I've used 13.5 gr of 2400/Lyman 358156GC in Magnum brass for many years in a variety of .357's...it's my favorite in my Marlin 1893CS and gives no outward signs of excessive pressure. Based on your results, and the better accuracy you've found at 12.5 gr. that'll be my next trial load.
And the 6.0 gr load with Unique is one that's escaped my use...sounds about right for my use velocity/recoil wise.
Again, thanks for the outstanding work. Rod
Last edited by Rodfac; 02-10-2021 at 09:22 AM.
Rod
Yes, that is my experience as well
Both the barrell/cylinder gap and the different chambers.
Larry Gibson
“Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
― Nikola Tesla
Great informative thread. Kudos to Larry and Ed. I am reminded, again, that published velocity from years gone by do not represent the velocity in real firearms. Before they went to autopistols, the RCMP used 5" Smith Model 10s and a load that produced 1,000 fps in their K frames. What do you want to bet their armorers had plenty of work keeping those Smiths up and running.
Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.
That is probably right.........
Loving the info guys! Keep it coming. Im gonna start casting that 156 once i find some gas checks gor it or get the gas check ring milled out. Been collecting dust in my mold cabinet.
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" I'd rather be lucky than good, GET SOME!" Mr. Revolver" - Jerry Miculek
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