I'm done...

[odfairfaxsub]

I shoot nothing but subs in mine. I do both gas checked and plain based subs. I have great success w my 1-7 twist. I use the 311-198 noe, the lee 309-230 and I use both versions of noe 311247 in lube grooves and slicksided.

[colonelhogan44]

I shoot nothing but subs in mine. I do both gas checked and plain based subs. I have great success w my 1-7 twist. I use the 311-198 noe, the lee 309-230 and I use both versions of noe 311247 in lube grooves and slicksided.

I'm about to start playing around with the Lee TL309-230-5R in a 1-7 twist. Any tips? I was thinking about starting by dipping the lube groove area in Johnson paste wax.

If they drop large enough, I'll probably load some up in 7.62x39 as well to feed my CZ527...it's a 1-9.5 so should be more forgiving.

[sutherpride59]

Man go watch some of “jonnys reloading bench” on YouTube. You will find that these short barrels like ours are just minute of man CQB tools. That fella bought the Ranier ultra match 9” barrel and was getting crap accuracy with the best copper jacketed he could fine. To add insult to injury all of his loads shot wonderful out of his $80 16” midway barrel. I’ve been loading for my 16” getting a sub load up for my suppressors but I guess it’s time I take my little guy out and cringe at the groups to see what I can do with him but you aren’t giving me much hope lol.

[Burnt Fingers]

OK thinking outside the box, does the crown look OK?

The crown is fine.

It shoots plated and jacketed bullets just fine.

[Conditor22]

I may just be a blind old man but I didn't see where you slugged/did a chamber cast or pound cast of your barrel.

see what the largest boolit that will fit - go into battery. -- running out of options

[sutherpride59]

To be honest I’ve had the best success in mine shooting subs with unsized boolits. Try using a .312 sized or just don’t size at all and see what you get. I suspect for subs it was more of a need to build up pressure with my soft alloy though.

[Tonto]

Great thread, more outside the box and there is no mention of the sights you are using.....Once in awhile trouble can be traced back to a loose mount or a flawed dot or crosshair adjustment.

[Finster101]

Man go watch some of “jonnys reloading bench” on YouTube. You will find that these short barrels like ours are just minute of man CQB tools. That fella bought the Ranier ultra match 9” barrel and was getting crap accuracy with the best copper jacketed he could fine. To add insult to injury all of his loads shot wonderful out of his $80 16” midway barrel. I’ve been loading for my 16” getting a sub load up for my suppressors but I guess it’s time I take my little guy out and cringe at the groups to see what I can do with him but you aren’t giving me much hope lol.

There is no reason you can not get good accuracy out of a short barrel.

[Burnt Fingers]

Great thread, more outside the box and there is no mention of the sights you are using.....Once in awhile trouble can be traced back to a loose mount or a flawed dot or crosshair adjustment.

If that were the case then the plated bullets would have the same problem. They don't.

I'm using a scope on the beast right now. Before that I had a Sig Red Dot.

I have not slugged the barrel. I went right to .310 bullets. A outsized bore on a 30 caliber barrel would be strange indeed.

[dverna]

After Saturday's range trip I've come to the conclusion that this barrel doesn't like cast bullets.

30 different heavy bullet loads and none of them would group.

I doubt changing the barrel will get you where you want to be. I did a lot of research and even invested in a Mi-Hec "NATO" mold for the AR in 5.56. It seemed that nearly everyone getting any success (defined by 2 MOA and cycling the action) had to weight sort and use gas checked bullets. My casting abilities are sub-par (+/- about 1.25 gr on pistol bullets) so getting consistent itsy-bitsy bullets seemed unlikely...but others can do it. BTW, easy to check how good you are by test weighing 50 of whatever bullets you currently cast.

I decided buying bulk Hornady 55 gr SP bullets made more sense. They go on sale for $420 delivered for 6000. Gas checks for 6000 bullets will cost $120, hard ball alloy added $100 and I was at 50% of the cost of decent SP bullet that will be twice as accurate. Then add in the cost of molds, wasted components to find a marginal load, and the time.

I estimated:
A casting rate of 600/hr.
Sorting rate of 1000/hr
GC/Lube rate of 300/hr.
Cull rate of 50% if sorting.

If you can use bullets without sorting. Time to produce 6000 bullets is 30 hours...for a saving of $200 (under $7/hr)
If you must sort bullets. Time to produce 600 bullets is 46 hours...saving $200...works out to less than $4.50/hr

Before investing in another barrel and more molds/development ...look at the economics, the time you have, as well as your casting ability.

With a usage of about 2000 5.56 a year, buying MOA jacketed SP bullets made the most sense in my situation. I need to "save" at least $10/hr to justify casting or reloading. I am retired and have plenty of time but I have more fun doing other things.

[popper]

the muzzle device has lead deposits and the tail of the bolt does too.

Reduce the load. 8" is kinda short, dwell time for fast is short so not much gas until you get to hotter loads. My 10" 1:8 does fine with 31-142C, but pistol gas at HV really gets lead on the bolt tail and rings get stuck. Lead on the muzzle is indicative of some gas cutting. Try 9 gr A2400 under the 145-150ish and see how you like it. Will cycle action and ~ 1600 fps. 9 gr cfe pistol cycles my action too.

[Burnt Fingers]

I doubt changing the barrel will get you where you want to be. I did a lot of research and even invested in a Mi-Hec "NATO" mold for the AR in 5.56. It seemed that nearly everyone getting any success (defined by 2 MOA and cycling the action) had to weight sort and use gas checked bullets. My casting abilities are sub-par (+/- about 1.25 gr on pistol bullets) so getting consistent itsy-bitsy bullets seemed unlikely...but others can do it. BTW, easy to check how good you are by test weighing 50 of whatever bullets you currently cast.

I decided buying bulk Hornady 55 gr SP bullets made more sense. They go on sale for $420 delivered for 6000. Gas checks for 6000 bullets will cost $120, hard ball alloy added $100 and I was at 50% of the cost of decent SP bullet that will be twice as accurate. Then add in the cost of molds, wasted components to find a marginal load, and the time.

I estimated:
A casting rate of 600/hr.
Sorting rate of 1000/hr
GC/Lube rate of 300/hr.
Cull rate of 50% if sorting.

If you can use bullets without sorting. Time to produce 6000 bullets is 30 hours...for a saving of $200 (under $7/hr)
If you must sort bullets. Time to produce 600 bullets is 46 hours...saving $200...works out to less than $4.50/hr

Before investing in another barrel and more molds/development ...look at the economics, the time you have, as well as your casting ability.

With a usage of about 2000 5.56 a year, buying MOA jacketed SP bullets made the most sense in my situation. I need to "save" at least $10/hr to justify casting or reloading. I am retired and have plenty of time but I have more fun doing other things.

I'm not shooting 223. I'm shooting 300 Blackout. There's a LOT of difference between the two. If you can find me 300 Blackout bullets for $420/6000 I'm all ears.

[Burnt Fingers]

Reduce the load. 8" is kinda short, dwell time for fast is short so not much gas until you get to hotter loads. My 10" 1:8 does fine with 31-142C, but pistol gas at HV really gets lead on the bolt tail and rings get stuck. Lead on the muzzle is indicative of some gas cutting. Try 9 gr A2400 under the 145-150ish and see how you like it. Will cycle action and ~ 1600 fps. 9 gr cfe pistol cycles my action too.

I did try reduced loads that would not cycle the action. It was still spraying bullets all over the target.

[sutherpride59]

If you want I have a PSA 9” barrel I can loan you for testing if you want. I plan on using it to build my brother a pistol with a brace when he turns 21 in October.

[Conditor22]

What powder/ loads have you tried with what boolits?
Short barrel = Faster powder

"I'm sizing to .310 I might have to give .311 a try. I think I have a NOE bushing in that size."

You could size to 310 then PC them larger.

[Landshark9025]

Try the Lee 312-155 2R with about a 93/5/2 alloy, gas checked, sized to .310, seated to the crimp groove, over 14.8g of Lil Gun with Remington 7 1/2 primers.

I have a 10” AR Pistol with 1:7 twist that will do 1.25 MOA at 100 with that and function flawlessly.

Note: That is a starting load and got me about 1822 FPS. As the charge weights went up, accuracy got worse. I’d play at the bottom end if I were you. I like this as it makes for cheap loads.

[Hairy Dawg]

I shoot a BCM 9" 1/7 sbr. I load 142 grain NOE plain base, powder coated bullet. My first loads were loaded with Lil Gun, and I struggled to get subsonic speeds while maintaining cycling, unsupressed, but with tinkering, was able to get there. 1680 was much easier to maintain cycling while keeping subsonic speeds unsupressed. I really haven't tried stretching it out to 100 yards, but at 50 yards, I'm more than happy.

[Burnt Fingers]

What powder/ loads have you tried with what boolits?
Short barrel = Faster powder

"I'm sizing to .310 I might have to give .311 a try. I think I have a NOE bushing in that size."

You could size to 310 then PC them larger.

With the MP 311410 I've tried H110, MP-300, Heavy Pistol, CFE Black, and 1680
With the NOE 158 the same powders plus Reloader 7
With the NOE 198 1680, CFE Black, RL7, IMR 4227
With the MP 235 the same as the NOE 198.

[Burnt Fingers]

What powder/ loads have you tried with what boolits?
Short barrel = Faster powder

"I'm sizing to .310 I might have to give .311 a try. I think I have a NOE bushing in that size."

You could size to 310 then PC them larger.

I coat then size.

[Burnt Fingers]

If you want I have a PSA 9” barrel I can loan you for testing if you want. I plan on using it to build my brother a pistol with a brace when he turns 21 in October.

Thanks for the offer.

Right now I'm in the process of converting this from a side charger to a top charger. Since I really wanted this as a supersonic lightweight launcher I'm pretty sure I'm going to order a custom 10.5" barrel in a slower twist with a carbine length gas system.

McGowen will do a custom barrel for $245.