300 whisper subsonic hunting boolits

[Hamish]

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/view...f=145&t=108125
"The tools of the trade a semi custom bolt action Tikka T3 rebarreled with a 12” 1:7 with Ti suppressor topped with a Aimpoint comp M4 zeroed in for 60m.

Ran across the term "Hilar shot" and went looking: https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....ar-shot-55370/

[Screwbolts]

Thank you for sharing the Hilar Shot link

[Hamish]

You bet. It makes sense to me.

[bld451]

You bet. It makes sense to me.

The MP 311-235 HP seems to be a good fit if you are going to shoot bare or with Hitek. With powder coating, I need to nose size the bore-ride section. I chose that over the NOE due to the slightly pointier meplat. Some guys are having luck feeding the NOE, but I didn't want to chance it as I have 223 ramps on my AR.

Anyway, I tested the original and one with longer hp pins that I made. These three tracks (top down) are NOE HTC 153 at 1780 fps, MP 311-235 with as-supplied hp pins at 1043 fps, and MP 311-235 with longer pins at 1036. Both completely penetrated the 16" block. The original (229 grs as cast) retained all its weight. The long hp version (225 grs as cast) left all the nose pieces between 7-10" in, and a 157 grain slug continued through.

[bld451]

Here are a couple more photos... nose pieces...

tracks...
So... given that 300 blackout subs are about 10mm ballistics, energy-wise, choose your shots carefully. Not a huge wound channel, but at 1000 fps, you generally won't get that. Plenty of penetration and some energy transfer between 2-10 inches. I think the factory hp pins will give some permanent channel, and I would not have a problem using them. Each bullet seems to have it's own drawbacks with this subsonic hunting situation. There doesn't seem to be a perfect answer, so evaluate what you need and determine what you can live with for making it happen (getting a nose- sizer vs shooting conventional lube or Hi tek, getting 300 blk specific mags so these will function, opening your feed ramps to feed a bigger hp, ) a bolt gun definitely makes it easier.

My vote is the MP 235 for my situation. (8.5" AR)

FYI, alloy for all the bullets shown above was air cooled 50/50 (ww and pure) with 2% tin, aged 1-2 weeks.

[bld451]

I presume you will be hunting with a bolt action? If so the NOE 247 hollowpoint looks like a great choice. Pay attention to the nose diameter depending on how you plan to coat or lube them. The Lehigh and Maker commercial bullets are gaining quite a following but I can't stomach paying more than a dollar apiece for bullets. If you have a source of lead, these cast pills are economical enough that you can shoot them enough to get pretty familiar with the setup.

[Hamish]

Great posts bld,

Nothing better than actual testing with included pics. I don't remember seeing anyone make the heavy sub/10mm comparison before, nice way to frame it.

[gpidaho]

Following. Just ordered in a Ruger American Ranch in 300 Blackout today as a side to my Blackout AR upper. Thanks for the links. Gp

[bld451]

Great posts bld,

Nothing better than actual testing with included pics. I don't remember seeing anyone make the heavy sub/10mm comparison before, nice way to frame it.

Thanks Hamish. Now I need to decide. Make new pins not quite as long and more tapered or try a 25-1 or 40-1 mix? Is it even worth trying if this performance proves typical? If it had stayed together, how much penetration could I expect? As it is, that looks like a slow Nosler partition bullet channel to me. Some energy dump with a solid shank to punch through. I do prefer tracking when there are two holes leaking... might just leave it...

[Hamish]

Just my opinion, but that big mushroom on the left looks perfect to me. Big hole in, bigger hole out,,,,,,,

[bld451]

Just my opinion, but that big mushroom on the left looks perfect to me. Big hole in, bigger hole out,,,,,,,

It does look pretty good. I was thinking I could get it to open up a bit more but it did measure about .560 at the widest point. I used a rag box to catch the ones that went through, so I can't say what the total penetration was. It would be nice to know. I think I'll try to slow the deep one down 50-100 fps to see how close it was to hanging together. It would be really nice to see how big a diameter it ended up. Might not take much of a change to keep it together...

[Gamsek]

That MP 311-235 (I get 220grs) penetrated 45cm+ in wet paper when started at 1000fps and 1350fps (bigger channel) and were stoped by or logged in dry paper which served as a backstop. I already did 3 wet pack test (two alloys, two velocities) and always amazed about penetration. Straight penetration till the end, no tumbling from 1:7” twist on my Ruger Ranch BLK. It it the same penetration I get with 7mm 140grs TTSX (2950fps). I use same paper for all my tests, soaked for days.







I asked what weight or shape is he going to use because then he can be advised better.
I would advise him 130grs 311-410 HP, 151grs 312-159 HP Hunting, 175grs 311-180 Sil HP or the newest Blackout/whisper dedicated 311-235 HP. For subsonic they are all accurate without GC and all can cast HP/FP solid, from MP Molds (Miha’s moulds). I also have 314-140, 312-440 and HG#38 Ness safety bullet but they don’t feed from Ranch magazine. I killed few roe bucks, foxes and chamois with 311-410 and 312-159 Hunting.
My preferred alloy is pure lead with 5%tin.

[Earl54]

67, don't like to go hunting deer after the shot. NEF/AAC single shot, 16 inch barrel,weaver V-3 scope. All shots from 10 to 60 yds. 8 shots, 8 deer DRT. 31141, stick on wheel weights,1350 fps. All shots through a softball sized area between the shoulder blades, no bullets recovered. Main thing I was told by my Grandpa was to be shure of your shot, and you have meat in the freezer.

[McFred]

@Gamsek, I don't even shoot .300BO, but that's a great post. Thank you.

[Gamsek]

@Gamsek, I don't even shoot .300BO, but that's a great post. Thank you.

Thanks! My buddy is using my cast bullets MP 311-235 HP in his 308 Win at 320 m/s and he is very happy, after two wild boars (DRT) in early spring he just got two 1y roe deers (we open season on May 1st) one dropped on spot , second made only one step and collapsed. I will try the same soon.
Cast bullets are effective- if you use them!

Thanks again for encouraging words, McFred.

[root]

I'm shooting a B&M mold 311170 that drops @ 180 Gn with straight WW.

12 Grns 4198 lubed and sized to 309 out of a 300 BLKOUT 8.5 inch SBR ar15 and either a Octane 9HD or a F1 30 cal SS can.


I also have a IDEAL mold that drops 200 gr with WW again it's a U311 334 3 94 stamped on it.
I havent's shot these yet just got a few loaded up for testing.

I also shoot the same 180 out of a remmy 700 PSS 308 but with trailboss and it's nothing but trigger clack and target smak

I don't powder coat any of my rounds due to almost shooting exclusively with suppressors.


Rich

[popper]

Root - those are fun. I use a 170PB PCd from 10" pistol, 8.5gr A2400. Bang - WHACK. Not sub, ~ 357 mag ballistics and very little recoil. No can. @50 yds, whack is as loud as bang - with muffs on! Backstop is just 1" fiberboard.
Interesting, I was using a Kaw Vally linear comp & playing 'whack-a-mole' with the 170s. Removed it after ~ 100 rnds. Lots of PB coating at the muzzle. No sign of PC. I had shot maybe 10 GC BLL coated hot loads that 'smoked' a lot and feel that is where the Pb came from. Saw some Pb and PC deposits on inside of flash hider on my AR10 after maybe 500 rnds but those are full jacketed fps and only a slight flashing of deposits. IMHO PC itself doesn't cause the problem. Soft alloy and pressure do.

[root]

From what I've seen with the PC deposits from my friend that shoots nothing but PC through his cans is pretty good deposits.

We attribute it to the flame cutting on the bullets once they exit the barrel into the can or your instance the brake.

It's just a PITA to clean on take apart cans like me and him have so a sealed can would build up and need sent back.

Nothing against PC bullets. Like most I'm just lazy and looking for the easy clean way out.

My buddy uses a ultra sonic cleaner for his I just use the "dip" and dispose of it @ the hazmat room where I do rotations.

Besides I'm a old man now and we all know what they say about teaching a old dog new tricks


Rich

[popper]

We attribute it to the flame cutting on the bullets once they exit the barrel into the can or your instance the brake.
I agree cans and the one I used provide some back pressure that plates it into the can. i use US and kerosene to clean mine.

[bld451]

I know us scientists aren't supposed to change more than one thing at a time but I tried killing two birds with one stone today. I tried some PB gas checks and tried reducing the load a little to see about expansion with the deeper pins. I ended up loading 11.5 grs. 1680 this time. It gave me 935 on the chrony. I would have thought I'd have been closer to 1,000... It seems I'll have to keep these above 950 with a 50/50 alloy. First one went right through my block and rag box into the berm. No expansion that I could see. Second one penetrated the gel vlock but stayed in the box. Photos below. Not much expansion. I'll be trying some 20:1 alloy next. I think Gamsek has the right idea. Also, I'm thinking the cross section of deeper pins does away with the taper in the walls of the hollowpoint that keeps it together expanded. That makes it weaker when it folds back. We'll see.

gas check almost made it through the block, but stopped about 1/4" from the end...

and one I retrieved from the berm after group testing...