A Few Questions That Have Probably Been Asked 100 Times

[longbow]

Something else comes to mind regarding accuracy. I've done most of my slug shooting with a single shot gun so pretty solid platform.

A few months ago I bought a Mossberg 500 which so far I really like but... the barrel to receiver fit was very sloppy. Probably makes little to no never mind for shot but for slugs i think so.

I decided to try the "recommended" beer/pop (soda) can shim. I found it hard to make and too fragile so went to brass shim stock. Worked great and nice snug fit. I haven't shot it enough since to note tighter groups but it was sloppy and pinning or shimmying is recommended by many.

Longbow

[ralph029]

I have to say, I am chomping at the bit to get started. I have everything I need except the wads which are hung up (according to their website) to Covid 19 staffing issues.

[ralph029]

Something else comes to mind regarding accuracy. I've done most of my slug shooting with a single shot gun so pretty solid platform.

A few months ago I bought a Mossberg 500 which so far I really like but... the barrel to receiver fit was very sloppy. Probably makes little to no never mind for shot but for slugs i think so.

I decided to try the "recommended" beer/pop (soda) can shim. I found it hard to make and too fragile so went to brass shim stock. Worked great and nice snug fit. I haven't shot it enough since to note tighter groups but it was sloppy and pinning or shimmying is recommended by many.

Longbow

In all this, I see a couple new guns in my future. I'm thinking an O/U for skeet and a single shot. Then I would have to learn how to reload for three different firearms and 3 or 4 different purposes. Damn, where does it end?

[W.R.Buchanan]

Damn, where does it end?

It doesn't! Just get used to it.

Randy

[ralph029]

I'm going to start working up some initial round ball loads to start. Like I said, I'm still waiting on wads to get here (tapping my fingers loudly on my desk) so I can't do Ajay's push through fitment yet. Let's say for the sake of argument that I have no problem with fitment, I intend on using .662 and .678 round balls. From everything you all are saying and what I have gleaned from elsewhere, I can use the load data for 1 oz (.662) & 1 1/8 oz (.678), right? Providing column height permits, I plan on using nitro cards (on some) or felt wads (on others), corn meal, and an overshot card in 2 3/4 Federal plastic hulls with paper base wads.
.662 = Federal 12S3 with 23 grains of Green Dot
.678 = Federal 12S3 with 23.5 grains of Unique
Sound good or a recipe for disaster?

[centershot]

Personally, I think those loads are a little "warmish". I'd back down to 19.5 gr. of Green Dot and 22 gr. of Unique.

[ralph029]

Personally, I think those loads are a little "warmish". I'd back down to 19.5 gr. of Green Dot and 22 gr. of Unique.

OK, advice headed. Why though? What did I not see or think of in my coming up with those? That will help me in the future for planning and troubleshooting. Also at 19.5 gr of Green Dot, I should move to a 12S0 wad, correct? Thanks cs!!!!!!

[centershot]

My recommendations on powder charge come from my Lyman Shotshell Handbook and the Federal website. Also, remember that primers can change pressures quickly, Federal 209A's being one of the "hotter" ones if that is what you are using.

[ralph029]

Ralph: Proceed with caution but you can check the data on the various federal hulls and you'll see that there isn't a HUGE difference one hull to the other. Find out the composition and size of the base wad in the hulls you have and compare to other Federal hulls and use the data for the closest match. Use a forgiving powder that has a large spread from minimum to maximum. I like Blue Dot, Longshot or Steel. For Round ball, Slugs or Buckshot. With .735 Round ball I've used as little as 32gr. of Blue Dot and as much as 44gr. out of a cylinder bore. Start low and watch for pressure signs as posted by Ajay. Good luck and enjoy the new challenge. Gp

Gp... In the world of metallic reloading there is always a range for powder amounts, but this is not the case in looking at any shotshell data. When you say "start low", what does that mean? Is that 97.5% of the listed amount? 95%?

[megasupermagnum]

Gp... In the world of metallic reloading there is always a range for powder amounts, but this is not the case in looking at any shotshell data. When you say "start low", what does that mean? Is that 97.5% of the listed amount? 95%?

Even worse, you will find a lot of target style load data is stopped at a certain velocity. You mentioned 1oz with Greendot, so looking at the Alliant website you will see their load data stops at 1290 fps. It doesn't matter if it's 7,200 psi or 9,000 psi, for some reason they decided 1290 fps was the magic number. It is very frustrating.

Now, based on a Federal gold medal hull, Fed 209A primer, and 1 oz data with Greendot, I'm seeing that 23 grains should be a safe maximum for your 1 ounce slug, although this will be near maximum pressure. This will be over 1300 fps, so whether or not you want that speed is up to you. 22 grains might be a better maximum. The general rule is to reduce by 10%, but this doesn't always work with shotgun data. 19 or 19.5 grains would be a good starting point.

[ralph029]

Even worse, you will find a lot of target style load data is stopped at a certain velocity. You mentioned 1oz with Greendot, so looking at the Alliant website you will see their load data stops at 1290 fps. It doesn't matter if it's 7,200 psi or 9,000 psi, for some reason they decided 1290 fps was the magic number. It is very frustrating.

Now, based on a Federal gold medal hull, Fed 209A primer, and 1 oz data with Greendot, I'm seeing that 23 grains should be a safe maximum for your 1 ounce slug, although this will be near maximum pressure. This will be over 1300 fps, so whether or not you want that speed is up to you. 22 grains might be a better maximum. The general rule is to reduce by 10%, but this doesn't always work with shotgun data. 19 or 19.5 grains would be a good starting point.

I'm really starting to miss all my dirty brass...

[ralph029]

Gentlemen (and ladies?), what you are looking at is my first attempt at all your hard work (in teaching me things). Here are the first 10 #00 buck loads. The crimping is a little rough as I am learning, there is a touch to it. I'm sure I'll get it down soon though. Is it easier to just roll crimp?

The load is:
2 3/4 Federal plastic with paper base wad
33 gr of Blue Dot
Federal 209A primer
Federal 12S4 wad
10 ea #00 lead buckshot

Now for Ben Avery to open so I can go see what they do when actually fired

I really appreciate everyone's help. Over the next week, other components will trick in and I will be doing another buckshot load and two round ball loads.

[megasupermagnum]

That picture is small, but to me the crimps look a bit shallow. If you measure the depth with a calipers from the top of the lip, to the flat of the crimp, a hunting level load is generally considered ideal at about .080-.090" crimp depth. .070" or so is acceptable.

[ralph029]

That picture is small, but to me the crimps look a bit shallow. If you measure the depth with a calipers from the top of the lip, to the flat of the crimp, a hunting level load is generally considered ideal at about .080-.090" crimp depth. .070" or so is acceptable.

Well, damn! I didn't figure any of that into this I will measure and see where I'm at and adjust accordingly. I know they are nowhere near .080. And by the way... thanks for raining on my parade! HAHAHAHA

Bigger pic...

[ralph029]

That picture is small, but to me the crimps look a bit shallow. If you measure the depth with a calipers from the top of the lip, to the flat of the crimp, a hunting level load is generally considered ideal at about .080-.090" crimp depth. .070" or so is acceptable.

So with the load I built, there is no way to get the crimp that deep without deforming the wall of the hull. It's it better to remove 2 pieces of shot and adjust the powder or cut the pedals off the wad to give it more room for the shot?

[megasupermagnum]

My first question is what type of machine are you loading on? A Lee has no adjustment, and takes the right touch to get a deeper crimp. It is tougher on brand new hulls, but can work. MEC is very tricky to get adjusted right. It is a razor thin balance between adjusting the crimp depth and cam over.

On to the load itself. I noticed in an old post that you put a part number for Federal hulls, but what I find is the clear Federal hulls from BPI. Those are deep based plastic based hulls. Often called either hunting hulls or .090" basewad hulls. They are the top of the line, and will certainly have an excess of room for your listed load. I would not trim the petals off, 00 buck should stack neatly in rows of 2 in a wad.

Now there is one simple trick you can use. You can use more wad pressure. On a MEC there is a simple scale on the front that can be used to gauge how much force you are using to seat the wad on the powder. Try seating up to 80 or 100 pounds. On a Lee you go by feel, just give a nice firm push, enough to compress the powder, and maybe even to begin compressing the wad cushion section. This will give you more space to crimp deeper.

[ralph029]

My first question is what type of machine are you loading on? A Lee has no adjustment, and takes the right touch to get a deeper crimp. It is tougher on brand new hulls, but can work. MEC is very tricky to get adjusted right. It is a razor thin balance between adjusting the crimp depth and cam over.

On to the load itself. I noticed in an old post that you put a part number for Federal hulls, but what I find is the clear Federal hulls from BPI. Those are deep based plastic based hulls. Often called either hunting hulls or .090" basewad hulls. They are the top of the line, and will certainly have an excess of room for your listed load. I would not trim the petals off, 00 buck should stack neatly in rows of 2 in a wad.

Now there is one simple trick you can use. You can use more wad pressure. On a MEC there is a simple scale on the front that can be used to gauge how much force you are using to seat the wad on the powder. Try seating up to 80 or 100 pounds. On a Lee you go by feel, just give a nice firm push, enough to compress the powder, and maybe even to begin compressing the wad cushion section. This will give you more space to crimp deeper.

I should have started with the fact that I was using a Lee Load-All. The hulls I'm using are here.

I did notice that there was a lot of feel involved with the Lee. I will try to seat the wad deeper and see how that "feels". I'll put together another 10 tomorrow and focus on the proper crimp. Thanks again msm for your guidance.

[megasupermagnum]

Ok, so those hulls are the hunting style hull. As said, they are usually called hunting style, one piece, or low plastic basewad/ .090" basewad Federal. In my opinion, they are the finest hulls ever made, and are a phenomenal choice for buckshot.

That said, your listed load is still plenty safe in that hull. With the Lee LoadAll II, you can't adjust the crimp unfortunately. It is designed for target style loads. So you likely won't get to .080", but you can get them slightly deeper, which is a good thing. Crimp is more important in shotgun than it is in any metallic cartridge. I find the trick to the Lee is to crimp in a quick motion. Once I feel the crimper make contact, I'll quickly and firmly crimp down as much as I feel I can get away with, without buckling the hull. Once you figure out the feel, it will be easy. I like to hold it down for a moment to let the plastic form. I'll then turn the shell 1/2 turn, and come down again with a nice firm push. The Lee can do a very nice job, and I find going by feel is a lot easier than adjusting the MEC.

[gpidaho]

Ralph: Sorry for the late reply. I haven't been logged in in a few. If you look over shotgun loads in the load books you will find that there is a load range with shot shells as with metallic cartridges. This is a little easier to follow in some of the powder manufactures fliers as some have loads listed in a line and not on a different page. (please don't let me be confusing) But, pick your powder and payload and you will note loads listed as target, light field, Heavy field etc. Generally the page will note that a certain percentage of the charge is ballisticly (sp) acceptable. Reloaders dropping charges through a bushing and not weighing their charges are trying to get as close as they can to the target weight and this is not often exact. Better a little less than too much. Gp

[ralph029]

Ok, so those hulls are the hunting style hull. As said, they are usually called hunting style, one piece, or low plastic basewad/ .090" basewad Federal. In my opinion, they are the finest hulls ever made, and are a phenomenal choice for buckshot.

I then have been looking at all the data wrong. I thought these were paper base was hulls. Thanks for clarifying. It was 100% dumb luck that I picked them.

That said, your listed load is still plenty safe in that hull. With the Lee LoadAll II, you can't adjust the crimp unfortunately. It is designed for target style loads. So you likely won't get to .080", but you can get them slightly deeper, which is a good thing. Crimp is more important in shotgun than it is in any metallic cartridge. I find the trick to the Lee is to crimp in a quick motion. Once I feel the crimper make contact, I'll quickly and firmly crimp down as much as I feel I can get away with, without buckling the hull. Once you figure out the feel, it will be easy. I like to hold it down for a moment to let the plastic form. I'll then turn the shell 1/2 turn, and come down again with a nice firm push. The Lee can do a very nice job, and I find going by feel is a lot easier than adjusting the MEC.

By the end of the first 10, I could tell there was a lot of feel involved. I did not realize that you could turn the shell and recrimp though. I do recall thinking that I wish I could see what was going on inside the crimper so I knew how it worked I'll keep you posted on how the second 10 turn out.