45 ACP Rimmed VS 45 ACP Straight?

[Gray Fox]

Midway still stocks the HKS .45 AR speedloaders as I just got a couple. I, too, got one of the performance center 625-8s, but have no access to a range until this lockdown ends. An interesting twist on the moon clip situation arises with the S&W Governor shooting .410, .45 Colt and .45 acp with moon clips. I suppose because of the thin rim of the Colt round vs a .45 AR rim and headspace, this gun will only function with steel moon clips not the thicker Rimz plastic ones. I learned that the first time I tried to close the cylinder using one. A loaded acp round drops all the way into the charge hole until it encounters the rasised area at the end of a Colt cartridge length. GF

[ddixie884]

I'm just sorry the Governor won't use .45AR.

[Harter66]

The Governor HS Colts on the OD of the cylinder and full moon clips on the extractor .

A friend bought a Governor several years ago and we split 100 clips from Revolver Supply at about 75¢ ea in hand . I have about 70 now and keep 6 boxes loaded in clips in a 30 cal can . The loaded and empty clips fit nicely in the large pill bottles .

For AR I got 100 rounds with the 1917 when I bought it .
Manuals have separate data for AR usually for heavier bullets .
For most of my shooting rimmed or clipped makes little difference . The big difference in the clips is that all the brass stays hooked together and doesn't get fumbled and dropped .

I recently scored a medium flat rate full of RP AR brass for ACP range brass money . It was offered as 450 pieces , I took it with no remorse at all .
That said I don't have a 45 auto .......just revolvers to shoot the 1917 S&W doesn't like the 454424 but it gulps down the 45-200 RCBS and H&G 130 and places them in neat little 4-5" bunches at 25 yd . It pleases me that a 103 yr old pistol shoots so well . I will eventually come up with a big fat nosed 230 gr bullet for it .
The big advantage of only having revolvers is the lengths that can be loaded in the short brass . Mom's 1917 Colts shot the 452-255 Lee at 265 gr quite well . I used Speer data for a 260 gr HP and seated the cast to the top of the top lube groove . It worked well and gave about 850 fps .

I will load the AR brass with the same loads used in ACP brass . I expect I will put the AR back as bulk ammo and mostly use the clipped ACP for now .

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I've got 45 Auto Rim and full moon, half moon, and 1/4 moon clips for my 1937 S&W Brazilian (like the 1917) revolvers. The Auto Rim is simpler in that you only handle the cartridge ONCE when loading the revolver. All the other clips require putting the 45 ACP cartridges into the clips, then unloading the clips after shooting. For cold weather or 'speed loading' the full moon clips do work better than individual cartridges. When I carry the 45 ACP S&W revolvers I start with 45 Auto Rim cartridges with some 45 Auto Rims available and a full moon clip available if for some reason I need a fast reload. There are speedloaders for the 45 Auto Rim but for real speed the full moon clips are faster. For 'casual' shooting, the Auto Rims are easier. You need to try both and decide which works best for your shooting. There is little difference in reloading requirements or on target results. Most dual cylinder single action revolvers won't allow the Auto Rim to be used in the 45 ACP or the 45 Colt cylinder.

[El Bibliotecario]

If rapidly reloading a .45 ACP weapon is important to me I carry a Colt Govt Model.

I have no reason to rapidly reload my .45 ACP revolvers, no interest in buying auto rim brass when I have a lifetime supply of ACP brass, and no desire to klutze around with Rube Goldberg clipping/declipping gadgets which eat up any time saved by loading with clips. I load the ACP rounds singly into the chambers. I do not use heavy loads, and they invariably lift out with no effort.

I imagine many clip affectionados will see the above as heresy. I think everyone should load their .45 ACP revolver the way they sweet please.

[ddixie884]

I think everyone should load their .45 ACP revolver the way they sweet please.[/QUOTE]

Me too. It is still a free country............

[StrawHat]

… I will eventually come up with a big fat nosed 230 gr bullet for it ...

Consider the SAECO 453, a 235 grain full wad cutter. I cast them with a 16/1 or 20/1 alloy and load them to hardball speeds. They hit like a freight train.

Kevin

[Bigslug]

I find moon clips to be a colossal P I T A.

Auto Rim brass takes your 1917 back to what a revolver should be - Gun + Ammo = good times.

Moon clips are more along the lines of: Gun + Ammo + adapter (that can get bent) + loading gadget (that got left at home) + unloading gadget (that got left at home) = endless frustration.

[Charliemac]

I simply load acp rounds without the half moon clips and use a 1/4" dowel and push them when I'm at the range. I'm shooting a 1917 Colt that my Dad picked up from Montgomery Wards in the early 60's for $12. He said there was a bunch of them on a table and he picked through them to find the best one. Also got a cross draw holster for it at the same time. Btw it was a ww2 re-issue, its parkerized.

[StrawHat]

This question is for those who find moon clips a problem.

Do you own a 1911 (or any self loader) and do you feel loading the magazine is also an inconvenience?

Kevin

[35 Whelen]

This question is for those who find moon clips a problem.

Do you own a 1911 (or any self loader) and do you feel loading the magazine is also an inconvenience?

Kevin

I find loading magazines for my Colt Gov't Model a minor inconvenience, but much easier than loading moon clips. As far as unloading the magazine, piece of cake.

35W

[El Bibliotecario]

A nice thing about magazines is that one does not have to remove the fired brass.

I find magazines carry very comfortably in flat pouches from which they can be retrieved and the weapon reloaded in a few seconds, thanks to the Government Model's ability to rapidly eject the old magazine.

Individual rounds and 1/3 moon clips fit in cartridge loops. The original issue 1/2 moon clips carry nicely in the USGI pouch for such. I am not sure how moon clip affectionados carry those bulky items. I always think of chipmunks with their cheeks stuffed with nuts, but suppose that isn't practical.

[35remington]

When walking afield I carried them in jeans or shorts pockets but bent some that way. Field shooting is infrequent enough that moon clips offer no advantage and some drawbacks.

But for short range sessions with much shooting they have some appeal.

[gwpercle]

I have a S&W 1917 ex military revolver chambered in 45 ACP and have been using the "moon clips" to load it. Since the pistol was designed for rimmed cartridges and not the straight-wall types, I was thinking of purchasing some of the Rimmed 45 ACP brass that is available from Star Line. What is everyone's opinion of the use of straight wall or rimmed 45 ACP cases? Is it worth the expense of purchasing the rimmed cases? Are they easier to use then the moon clipped cases? Do you recommend them?

45 Auto Rim was developed just for taking the place of 45 acp in moon clips ... even back then some didn't like fooling around with the stinking moon clips ...be they full moon , half moon or even 1/4 moon ... Don't like moon clips then roll with the 45 AR ... it's just the ticket for that train .
Gary

[Harter66]

Consider the SAECO 453, a 235 grain full wad cutter. I cast them with a 16/1 or 20/1 alloy and load them to hardball speeds. They hit like a freight train.

Kevin

I have a 454424 with an HP mod I think I could dabble with the nose length there and duplicate the 423 at 230 . I wish Lee made a 452-230 RNFP like the 452-255 minus a band and groove or even the 452-252 SWC . Maybe a 454421

[Walks]

The neat thing about .45AR brass is that it lasts Foever.
I'm still shooting some Western .45AR brass that My Dad gave Me when I got a S&W 1917 in 1979.
With 1/2 a dozen boxes of .45AR purchased over the next few years. And 500 Remington cases purchased from Graf & Sons several years later, I'll never have to worry about brass in My lifetime.
And I load the AR brass with #452423 Keith SWC.

As far as an AR case fitting into a Ruger Blachhawk. It WILL NOT FIT. Had an friend that tried it. He did manage to get a AR case past the loading gate. I had a heck of a time getting the cylinder out to remove the loaded .45AR cartridge.

[Dale53]

One thing that is NOT mentioned in this long thread and NEEDS to be:

NOTE: Most of the 1917 revolvers (with the exception of some early Colt revolvers whose chambers were bored straight thru without the ledge that the ACP case mouth headspaces on) work perfectly fine using ACP cases without the moon clips. When used in that manner the ejector does not work but you can punch out the empties with a pencil or generally just use your finger tips. HOWEVER, some of the late issue S&W Model 625’s do not have the headspacing ledge that the earlier revolvers did. The newer one have the ball seats like the other caliber
Smith revolvers do. If you have one of the later Smith’s you MUST use moonclips for .45 ACP’s to properly headspace. Brian Pearce in a couple of Handloader Magazines discussed this at some length.

Some people are upset at this state of affairs and some not.

Me, I do not EVER try to use .45 ACP’s in either of my 625’s without moonclips so it has no effect on me. However, I mention this for those that may not know this. I, personally, checked my two 625’s and one has “the original cylinder throats and the other revolver has the NEW design ball seat.

FWIW
Dale 53

[kens]

This question is for those who find moon clips a problem.

Do you own a 1911 (or any self loader) and do you feel loading the magazine is also an inconvenience?

Kevin

Thats a classic !!!
I have a old smith 1917 and run 45acp thru it side by side a 1911. no moon clips,
the rim in this example is there for extraction not so much for headspace
pluck them out with a fingernail

[Jtarm]

A nice thing about magazines is that one does not have to remove the fired brass.

I find magazines carry very comfortably in flat pouches from which they can be retrieved and the weapon reloaded in a few seconds, thanks to the Government Model's ability to rapidly eject the old magazine.

Individual rounds and 1/3 moon clips fit in cartridge loops. The original issue 1/2 moon clips carry nicely in the USGI pouch for such. I am not sure how moon clip affectionados carry those bulky items. I always think of chipmunks with their cheeks stuffed with nuts, but suppose that isn't practical.

A nice thing about cylinders is that one doesn’t have to go hunting for one’s brass

[ddixie884]

Just a note on heavier bullets for .45acp. I have in the past loaded the 454424 with all bands in the case with a bare sliver of the front band showing for use in a 1911. I was under the mistaken impression that the 255gr swcbb .452 by Magma was too long to fit in a 1911 magazine when seated to the crimp groove. I was wrong! It loads with a nearly perfect tolerance and if a barrel was ported for it I believe it should feed and function.