RotoMetals2Reloading EverythingLee PrecisionRepackbox
Load DataMidSouth Shooters SupplyInline FabricationTitan Reloading
Wideners
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 78

Thread: Old E

  1. #21
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    3,577
    John,

    I have no idea what null-B powder is and I don't screen my powder.
    What I have done once was put partley empty cans of 1.5,2 and 3F OE in a coffee can and mixed it to use for blowing out .44 basic cases necked down to the .44-90bn to blow the shoulders out and shot at a 200 yard target. After 100 rounds through that target made me to reload those fire formed cases again and I took them as well as a second rifle to a silhouette match and after getting sight settings I was convinced to use that mix of powder loads and shoot the match using it. I finished with a 29 and a 10 Turkey pin when it was over.
    That makes me wonder if worrying about fines in the powder is just a waste of time.

  2. #22
    Boolit Buddy Distant Thunder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Northeast WI
    Posts
    206
    I, for one, have not given up on Swiss (1 1/2). That powder has won many matches for me over the past 20 years and up until some time in 2013 was very consistent lot to lot.

    This past winter I did a fair amount testing of Swiss 1 1/2 in my .40-65 with a 382 grain paper patch bullet. I concluded that while the lot to lot consistency may be gone the potential for outstanding accuracy is still there if you take the time to look for it.

    This 10-shot group was shot at 200 meters this past winter from the bench with my scoped .40-65. I still need to test with more and less compression to see if this IS the sweet spot, but this load has shot very consistently in my somewhat limited testing.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	01-25-20-4.jpg 
Views:	24 
Size:	19.6 KB 
ID:	263474

    As a control group for comparison this group was shot the same day, the same way with the lot of Swiss I have been shooting for the past few years. I have won more matches with my old lot than I can remember using both my .45-70 and my .40-65. Two different lots of Swiss 1 1/2 from the same year of production, note the compression difference between the two.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	01-25-20-1.jpg 
Views:	23 
Size:	21.0 KB 
ID:	263475

    So yes, I would buy another case of Swiss 1 1/2 or even 2F, but I would know going into it that I would have to do just what I always did before I discovered Swiss 1 1/2. Just like I use to do with Goex 2F, buy a case or two and spend the time finding out what compression worked best. It likely won't be the same as the last lot! It could even require a different primer. Load development, load development, very important. You just have to start over again from scratch with each new lot.
    Jim Kluskens
    aka Distant Thunder

    Black powder paper patching is a journey, enjoy the ride!

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Portsmouth Ohio
    Posts
    356
    My best groups (and scores) have been from Swiss. I had a lot that was in the middle of what people were saying were bad lots but it did very well for me. I just thought I would really sit down and see if this OE would do as well. I will have to shoot it for an entire season to be sure but so far there does seem to be more fouling and the OE1.5 is slower than the Swiss 1.5


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy Distant Thunder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Northeast WI
    Posts
    206
    Ian,

    You can test all you want, that's a good thing and I appreciate you posting your results. If there is another powder that can deliver good or better accuracy I want to know about it especially if it is priced lower than Swiss, which ain't cheap.

    It just seems that some of those lots of Swiss 1 1/2 that were said to be bad may benefit from more compression and a little load development. I'd like to hear from anyone else who may have tried more compression and what resulted.

    So I'll get off the Swiss and listen to your findings with OE.
    Jim Kluskens
    aka Distant Thunder

    Black powder paper patching is a journey, enjoy the ride!

  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hell Gap Wy
    Posts
    6,094
    I'm always curious what the back room talk is when the occasional shooter shows up shooting OE and beats a handful of shooters using Swiss... One time it's said that one of those Swiss shooters got home demanding his rifle be rebarreled......
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    3,577
    OE will hold it's own without a problem. It is no different working up a load with Swiss and OE. The right person behind the butt plate with the skills to handle the rifle.

  7. #27
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hell Gap Wy
    Posts
    6,094
    Yup absolute fact
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    160
    Jim and Kurt, after our discussion last August at Harris, I started this spring with a new to me batch of Swisspowder with both my 45-70 and my 45-90. I'm using a 2014 batch of powder and started out going the opposite direction I normally go. I reloaded the first test rounds by weight as the 2014 powder is less dense than my old batch of powder. Neither rifle likes that much compression very well so I went back to loading like I always do between .030" and .050" compression. The 45-70 is shooting fantastic and the 45-90 isn't far behind but it does have a little vertical. I'll be taking it to Big Hill in 2 weeks and hope that it doesn't show up on the targets. I wish I had more time to continue working but it's time to start putting loads together. I did buy 16 pounds of 2013 Swiss from my buddy Mike after he came down with Huntington's. I'm going to try that after we get back from Big Hill. It was good enough that it got him seventh place at the Quigley and he only missed one sit down target but he was shaking so bad in the offhand that he only hit two there.
    On a different note, if anybody knows where there's a fairly good supply of Elephant powder that I could pick up somewhere out west, I'd appreciate knowing about it. I'm looking for 2000 2F Elephant or newer. Velocity may not be everything but it sure shoots well in my 38-50.

  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    6,314
    if anybody knows where there's a fairly good supply of Elephant powder that I could pick up somewhere out west, I'd appreciate knowing about it.
    Source for Diamondback (Elephant) powder ... https://www.addictedtoblackpowder.com/product/
    Regards
    John

  10. #30
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    3,577
    Hi Bob, I hope you do well at the Hill. I just cant get away to make that shoot this year. It's one of my favorite.
    My eyes are going down hill fast you saw this at the last Lodi match when you helped me get the sight settings when I switched from the tang to the scope in the middle of the match and I really want to thank you for doing that for me. Harris was the final straw that broke the Camels back for me trying to shoot a match with the irons. I hope Harris will be on later this summer.

    I haven't used Elephant for many years because it just didn't perform well. I messed around with it some by adding some medical grade potassium nitrate to see if I could get a better burn and it helped a little but not enough to stay with it. Lately I seen posts that it's doing well for some but I don't know where they are getting it.

    I haven't seen any reports of the latest Swiss lot but my last two lots 04/05/2015 and 26/02/2018 did not impress me. The OE I used at the Quigley in the .45-90 lot E1-09/19JU24b held me pretty high finish. I also used it at the MT 1000 the year before that put me in 3rd place using the .45-90 so for now I'm sticking with the OE and I might not go back using Swiss.

    I haven't shot any of the 1.5 OE over the chronograph to see what the ES and SD look like but the vertical through the paper is flatline in the .44-77 and the .45-100 I been shooting this year mostly here at home.

    Shoot well........Kurt

  11. #31
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    160
    Thanks Kurt. I know what you mean about the eyes. My apertures keep be getting bigger every year.

  12. #32
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    160
    Quote Originally Posted by John Boy View Post
    Source for Diamondback (Elephant) powder ... https://www.addictedtoblackpowder.com/product/
    John, with just a quick look at that website, I only found cannon powder available in limited supplies. I'll have to go back later when I have more time and look a little closer. I did not know that Diamondback is now the old Elephant plant. IIRC, I thought I remember seeing that the old Elephant plant was torn down due to expansion

  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Portsmouth Ohio
    Posts
    356
    I just went to test these loads on some sillywets. Specifically turkeys. I am very satisfied with how things are going. A couple weeks ago at my first match of the season I shot the OE 1.5 for the first time in a match. It didn’t go so well. I was starting to worry actually. The fouling which was great in the cooler months was becoming an issue in the warmer weather. Well after the match I started hitting the range to see what was going on and how to fix it. Keeping the same powder charge and adding an extra wad cut my ES in more than half and made some nice groups. I switched up my wiping a little also. I went from the gophers with 50/50 Preston RV antifreeze Over to 7:1 Napa oil and I revisited the baco wipers. I tried the brushes with the Napa oil and got a 6” group for 10 shots. The baco wipers for whatever reason cut those groups way down also. Not exactly sure which thing I did.... I am inclined to think that it may have been a combination of the 2 or 3 or whatever but after today I am very confident. We have another match in 2 weeks. I feel feel really good about it and I will he sure to post the scores.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,941
    Ian my .45-90 with Dan T's bore diameter PP chamber also worked much better when using two wads with OE 1.5. With Swiss 1.5 a single 0.060" LDPE wad works best. With OE 1.5 I need 2 LDPE wads or it would gas cut which also showed up on the chronograph as a crappy SD. Interestingly Kenny W's 3 wad stack ( veg + LDPE + felt ) worked very well with OE 1.5 in the .45-90.

    Chris.

  15. #35
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Hell Gap Wy
    Posts
    6,094
    Fouling control, fouling control, fouling control,,
    I still have a couple of cans of the really nasty dirty Elephant powder. With the BACO bore wipe system I'm wondering now if maybe that stuff could be made to shoot some whizzbang groups?
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  16. #36
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Portsmouth Ohio
    Posts
    356
    It was either the extra .060” of compression, the baco wipers or the water and oil but something was making it work.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  17. #37
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    3,577
    Ian I think your starting to see something....maybe.....2 wads the results are improving over one wad. What is the second wad doing ? sealing the bore and keeping the gas behind the bullet instead of leaking past with one wad. A .06" wad is hard and won't expand enough in the initial pressure build up when it's still in the case neck in the chamber causing uneven pressure behind the bullet. With a GG bullet with the proper diameter of the ogive making firm contact in the throat will improve the gas seal keeping the vertical down and also aligning the bullet in the bore if you don'r use tight neck tension.
    A PP bullet that seated out farther and of proper fit to the bore will act like a breach seated bullet that is in the bore with out runout keeping it from uneven change of the lead flow causing unbalance. Also the lube wad helps to seal the bore and you can get by using just one wad but two softer .03" is better than one .06" from what I see on recovered undamaged bullets.
    The reason beltfed/Arnie that posts here uses a DDPP bullet he developed for his used Buffalo Armes is starting to make moulds from his designs that does just what is needed, sealing the bore quicker holding the gas back with the larger base diameter PP bullet. It acts more like a GG bullet that is groove diameter but the benefit of having the paper jacket keeping the lead off the bore holding accuracy.
    Kurt

  18. #38
    Boolit Buddy Distant Thunder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Northeast WI
    Posts
    206
    Kurt,

    An excellent job explaining one of the benefits of Arnie's 2-D PPB design in grease groove chambers! They do work very well. It's not just the bigger base of his design, his version of the elliptical bullet is well thought out for transonic velocities and he keeps the length to what the twist rate can optimally stabilize. His bullet designs will prove to be very good performers. Well thought out.
    Jim Kluskens
    aka Distant Thunder

    Black powder paper patching is a journey, enjoy the ride!

  19. #39
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Portsmouth Ohio
    Posts
    356
    My theory ( and I have no idea if it’s true) is pretty much what your saying. The extra wad is helping the bullet stay sealed while it bumps up. The Swiss loads I have shot in this rifle shot well with just the 1 wad but maybe that is because the Swiss was a hotter powder. It is interesting to say the least. Now..... let me add something else. I shot 17 rounds through my cpa with OE 1.5 loads that I made before trying the 2 wad load in the shiloh. After I got on the animal out of 13 shots I had 2 misses one of which I know was my fault. The other was probably missed condition but they were grouping very well. This cpa has a chamber that is very similar to my c sharps highwall which I think is similar to the browning bpcr rifles. It has a 12.5 degree transition from the end of the case right into the rifling. I am going to do more testing with the cpa and see what it will do. In 2 weeks I will shoot the Shiloh and if the cpa shoots like it did again at another practice then I will probably take it to alma in July for their big shoot and see what happens with it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  20. #40
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    3,577
    All my CPA rifles and change barrels have tight chambers for the PP only cut with my reamers. They will not except a DDPP bullet. Today I was looking through the Buffalo Arms web site at .44 PP bullet moulds and I see there is one of Arnies DDPP moulds for the .44. My Shiloh Farmer has a loose chamber that needs the case neck sized down to put a little friction on the bore diameter bullet so I will order one of Arnies design .44's but I have to make a change on the bore section it being .433". That makes it a little hard push to chamber the round even using .0015" thick paper I don't like to use for a .004" deep groove barrel. I use .0018" the thinnest and .002"paper.
    The .443 base I can change pushing it through a die if I need to do this.
    I like the blunter ball nose and shorter ogive radius compared to the shank that bullet has.........Just what I need......another mould. .....Kurt

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check