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Thread: New sabot prototype

  1. #21
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    Those huge gaps between the petals are not conducive to accuracy. Make the sabot a nearly full fit with only tiny slits between petals, and make the diameter far larger, .732" would be a good number to shoot for.
    Noted on the gaps, they are pretty wide on these. I have a drawing of them at 1/3rd of the size that I will be using.

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Those look like they are 3D printed? If so I will guess that they will not be consistent enough to provide good accuracy. At least based on what I have seen 3D printed even with good industrial 3D printers.

    Also, if 3D printed I am not sure of the plastic bond between layers. Again, based on my experience the plastic may not be well enough bonded to take the pressure and jump through forcing cone. BigMrTong 3D printed his rocket fins but those are purely in compression and sit inside a shotcup with cushion leg. Not saying they aren't worth trying even if 3D printed because they may work if they are consistent size.

    If machined then ignore this post as they should be fine if accurately machined and correct size. I'll side with msm there too... 0.732" minimum sounds like a nice number and should fit most common groove diameters. 0.735" might be a bit big, though depending on plastic should squish down easily enough.

    Longbow

  3. #23
    Boolit Bub
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    They are 3D printed, all of the test run were very consistent on sizing and held together a bit too well (stayed on the bullet) I am adding a relief groove at the bottom by the base to allow pre stressing without snapping as well as lowering the infill (density) of the nylon for this go around. If that doesn't work then a new plastic will be in the works. I have spent most of the day on the revisions and can't wait to see if there are any improvements.

  4. #24
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Yes, you need a groove at the base of the petals to get them to open. I worked on a 3D model and drawings for a design Greg Sappington came up several years ago. He had to play with designs to get petals to open and sabots to separate well but in the end he got it. I don't think he ever went into full production mode though. He was getting those CNC machined from Delrin.

    Longbow

  5. #25
    Boolit Master Cap'n Morgan's Avatar
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    Since you're using 3-D print, you could try with a design where the petals have a slight outwards spread to help separating bullet and wad. Of course the wad must be pliable enough not to bulge the hull when loading.
    Cap'n Morgan

  6. #26
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    If You want to use powders that have the capacity for high velocity, I would use a different Sabot material.
    Nylon is abrasive to Steel, and ABS is a bit brittle. HDPE would be a good fit, and common. I use Acetal/Delrin, but have to watch that
    everything is seated tight. A sudden gap will crack the base of the Sabot.

    If You go with bullets heavier than 300 grains, I would try Lil Gun, or something similar. Longshot peaks too quickly, and can cause failures.
    Stay away from AA#9 and H110, as dangerous spikes can occur.

    Greg
    AKA 12 Bore

  7. #27
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Greg:

    Good to see you back! I have mentioned your name a few times lately here and in a thread on heavy slugs referencing your previous posts on your 1043 gr. bear stopper... a notably heavy slug!

    Longbow

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg5278 View Post
    If You want to use powders that have the capacity for high velocity, I would use a different Sabot material.
    Nylon is abrasive to Steel, and ABS is a bit brittle. HDPE would be a good fit, and common. I use Acetal/Delrin, but have to watch that
    everything is seated tight. A sudden gap will crack the base of the Sabot.

    If You go with bullets heavier than 300 grains, I would try Lil Gun, or something similar. Longshot peaks too quickly, and can cause failures.
    Stay away from AA#9 and H110, as dangerous spikes can occur.

    Greg
    AKA 12 Bore
    Thank you! This is very helpful. I thought it may be abrasive as well but at the time these were made it was the strongest print option I had.

  9. #29
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    Nylon would just be rough for long term use in a Rifled bore. Delrin/Acetal/POM is good, but can crack under setback.
    HDPE is a reasonable density allows for low Friction, and good shock resistance.

    I found that Delrin Sabots need a Powder that is slower, or builds pressure more slowly. Longshot seems to be rough on components, as is Unique, and Red Dot. The Fastest I have ever pushed a 12 Ga Sabot was 2254 FPS using the CCS Sabot, and a 265 Grain Lehigh .458 Brass bullet. I don't exactly recall the tested Pressure, but think is was 13.5K PSI.

    I did take 1 Deer with the Load, and never used it again, Recoil was really snappy, and it wasted too much Meat.
    I have never seen such Tissue damage with any Rifle Caliber. It literally pulled out a large portion of one Lung, and left it looking like a Pennant on the off side. In my experience, the 12 Ga is easiest to shoot accurately with a load of 1580-1750 FPS using a 50 Caliber bullet in the 324-350 grain range.

    Greg
    AKA 12 Bore

  10. #30
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
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    Bump


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  11. #31
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    I have given up this project, after many re-designs not working and even the company I had running these for me going out of business I have invested too much with no results. Between blowing out the bottom of the Sabots, petals not opening, only opening half way, tumbling slugs, and even a sabot getting stuck in the barrel I think it is time. Maybe if I get more resources and fund a new guy to print them I will try again one day, for now full bore it is

  12. #32
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    MMP is the place you need to go discuss things with.

    they been making sabots for oh since 1990?

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BandeauRouge View Post
    MMP is the place you need to go discuss things with.

    they been making sabots for oh since 1990?
    Perhaps, but there is a whole world of difference between making a a cup that just needs to guide a bullet down a barrel in a muzzleloader, rather than a shotgun where it has to realign a very undersized bullet through a forcing cone. That's on top of the fact it has to deal with all kinds of wadding that a muzzleloader doesn't. If you look at sabot's from good shotgun slugs such as those from Federal or Remington you will find that they are not similar at all to those used in muzzleloaders. Not in design or materials.

    I wouldn't feel too bad Acknott. Most manufacturers have been trying to perfect sabot shotgun slugs since the late 80's. They had decades, all the equipment imaginable, and workers whos job it was to do that. They still aren't that amazing when you really look at it. One of the most accurate sabot slugs ever is from BRI back in the 80's, and it doesn't seem like anyone has ever surpassed it. Actually if you look at the people who have actually put up the most impressive groups from slug guns you will see names like Lightfield, Hastings, and other slugs that are not what most think of sabot slugs. Thankfully Bloodtrail has purchased a company that makes such a slug that is just like a Hastings.
    Last edited by megasupermagnum; 02-03-2023 at 12:43 AM.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
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    Every commercial sabot I’ve seen had either a metal disk molded in the base of the sabot or had one externally attached to prevent that from happening.

    The best results I’ve gotten from RSS sabots was when I placed a .44 cal cork/rubber disk in the base of the sabot.


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  15. #35
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    Thank you megasupermagnum. Blood Trail, what is the name of your company and do your slugs do well in rifled barrels? I would be very interested in giving them a try

  16. #36
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acknott View Post
    Thank you megasupermagnum. Blood Trail, what is the name of your company and do your slugs do well in rifled barrels? I would be very interested in giving them a try
    I bought SlugsRUs but changed the name to Freedom Ballistics Lab, LLC. I kept the Hammerhead slug name. My injection molds are being repaired and should be up and running within the next month.

    Yes, they perform outstanding in rifled barrels only. Do a search on here and you’ll find some topics on them.


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  17. #37
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    Here's a Slugs R Us/ Leon Slug with a Brass Insert and the target that was shot at 50 yards from a Browning A5 with a Hastings Barrel with Open Sights. It measures 1 x 1.5" Got similar results with the Lead insert. First 3 shots were the clover leaf! These are called "Hammerheads" for a Reason !!!.

    I only run these at 1250-1300 fps. I have seen videos where they came apart at 1500 fps, but at 550 gr they really don't need to go that fast. Easily a 100 yard slug at 1200fps

    Randy.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 100464943.JPG   100464885.jpg   100464879.JPG   100464881.JPG   100464874.jpg  

    100464934.JPG  
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
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  18. #38
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
    Here's a Slugs R Us/ Leon Slug with a Brass Insert and the target that was shot at 50 yards from a Browning A5 with a Hastings Barrel with Open Sights. It measures 1 x 1.5" Got similar results with the Lead insert. First 3 shots were the clover leaf! These are called "Hammerheads" for a Reason !!!.

    I only run these at 1250-1300 fps. I have seen videos where they came apart at 1500 fps, but at 550 gr they really don't need to go that fast. Easily a 100 yard slug at 1200fps

    Randy.
    Very nice. My favorite load with these is using 800X. I had them moving at 1650 fps.

    Here’s a few groups:






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  19. #39
    Boolit Master

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    That's good news Leon, and darn good shooting, both you and Randy! My roundball loads are pretty good but I'm looking forward to trying the Hammerhead when thet're available.
    "We take a thousand moments for granted thinking there will be a thousand more to come. Each day, each breath, each beat of your heart is a gift. Live with love & joy, tomorrow is not promised to anyone......"

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  20. #40
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    I had them moving at 1650 fps. Yes but you are much larger and can absorb much more abuse than my 73 year old **** can.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check