plug in pid or pot with pid built in

[odette]

I missed out on Hatch's PID, so I have been wondering, is the plug in PID better than the new pots from Lyman or RCBS with built in PID. I understand the plug in PID would work well with the Lee pots and my 35 yr old Lyman Mag 20. Are the new Lyman or RCBS pots PID control as good as a LEE plugged in to a separate PID. Is there a problem with the RCBS or the Lyman PID's on those pots if you lose power while casting? Do you have to send either back to the company to get them to function again?
My Lyman still works fine, but is a pain maintaining consistent heat.

[Camper64]

Odette,

Hatch has a Vendor Sponsor page selling his PID units. The group buy he just did was a special sales. Below is a link to his normal PID ad.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-setup-UPDATE!

[StuBach]

Just add a PID to your old unit, you’ll be happy. I originally added a PID to my Lee drip o matic and was impressed with ability to hold temp. Putting on the new to me RCBS PM1 I was thrilled.

RCBS has actually pulled the PM2 with built in PID from production while the address some known issues with it and these units do require a cool down period to keep the PID from frying from the heat (internal fan keeps running but you turn pot temp down to zero and let it run for like an hour). Seems like a hassle to me but several people have said they were happy with PM2s.

[megasupermagnum]

The PID's themselves should all be able to maintain temps well. The only variables would be the thermocouples, which mine is slightly off.

I'm sure the built in units are just as good, however, I would never buy one of those units with that in mind. A stand alone PID controller can be used on any electric (maybe even gas if you are creative) melting pots ever made. Even a hot plate can be controlled by a PID controller.

As for PID vs thermostat like what comes with the cheaper pots, it's no comparison. You can make good bullets without a PID, you can make good bullets over a campfire. A PID will maintain temperatures, and you can always come back to that exact temperature in the future. It just makes life easier. I built my own with about $50 worth of Ebay parts, stuffed into an old computer power supply metal box, and it took me an hour or so. Best $50 I ever put into bullet casting.

[Mike W1]

FWIW, I assembled all of my units, and don't have a pot with the built in one so can't comment on that part. But building your own gives you a little better idea of what's going on for one thing. And it's a darn sight easier to repair a separate unit if something would go wrong. I don't care for the idea of all that heat anywhere near a built in unit either. Plus like the man above said you can shuffle a unit around to other equipment if it's separate. I wouldn't consider running my hot plate, luber heater or my pots if they weren't PID controlled anymore. Like I mentioned in another post, you can do this little hobby without them for sure. But horse and buggy will get you from here to there also and I prefer my car. When I turn things on now the mold is at casting temperature and the lead is just right. I expect and get first bullets good and they stay that way. If I have a reject it's cause I screwed up the flow of the lead. Last session I had ONE bad bullet. And besides that they're fun to assemble!!!

[CamoWhamo]

I have a Hatch PID which i use with Lee pots and i have also had a Lyman and RCBS digital pots with built in PID.

My recommendation is to use a separate PID.
The best reason is because the temp probe is in the alloy and that really makes a difference to the performance and accuracy of the PID.
There are 2 minor drawbacks with it. The probe can be in the way when fluxing the pot or ladle casting, but if you're using a bottom pour pot you'll hardly notice it's there once you start casting.
And the extra box and wires add to the clutter on the bench.

Of the 2 digital pots, the Lyman is by far the better unit for temp control and accuracy. The RCBS is terrible in that regards.
The RCBS has the better bottom pour spout and mould guide but the Lyman is not a bad unit overall.

[lightman]

After reading about the cool down time required on the newer RCBS pots I am happy to have a separate PID. Heat is usually the enemy of any electric device and I would think that having the PID components so near the pot would shorten their life.

I have never built a PID but I always thought that a computer power supply with the built in fan would make a fine housing for a PID.

All of the pro's and con's listed above make valid points. Just access your needs and bench space and pick one.

[Phlier]

It is really nice to have the PID be separate from the pot; you'll never know what else you need to hook up a PID to. I've found a couple of other uses for mine other than the casting pot, and it works great.

I built mine by using the instructions here on the forum, and it really was easy to do. I'm not electrically inclined, but building this was cake. I took my own sweet time building mine. Took me about two hours. The most time consuming part was reading up on how to put the thing together. The actual process of doing it was easy, though.

[psychbiker]

I've got a lee 4-20 and built a PID for it. Works great. I also added a spring to the up and down arm that helps minimize dripping BUT doesnt eliminate.

I would only go with a Magma master pot if I were to get a different bottom pour. Having 40lbs of lead vs 20lbs is very nice. I hate having to stop about 3/4 and add more lead. Having the 40lb would also allow for more consistent alloy blend.

[Phlier]

Having the 40lb would also allow for more consistent alloy blend.

Get yourself a large propane burner and a large cast iron pot (some dutch ovens work well for this), and make up several hundred pounds of exactly the same alloy in advance. Saves a lot of time vs. using your casting pot to create the alloy you want on the fly, and also assures that the alloy will be consistent.

If you don't want to commit to doing that large of batch sizes, you can use an electric hot plate (and even hook up your PID to it) to make smaller batches.

[RedlegEd]

Hi.
I'd also recommend a separate PID unit. As mentioned above, they are easy to assemble and program. I use the one pictured below for everything from my PC/HiTek oven to my production pots (both bottom pour and ladle.) You just plug in the device and it's thermocouple, set the temp you want, and Bob's your uncle! The K-type thermocouples are really inexpensive so each device can have it's own, and if you protect them in a thermowell (a simple AL tube with the end rolled up,) you can keep the probe directly submersed in the alloy (just make sure they are rated to a high enough temperature.)
Ed

[wv109323]

I would go with a separate pid. The reason being you can use it for lube temp. Mold temp., toaster oven or multiple casting pots. If something goes south you can replace it.

[44magLeo]

As others I built mine. I like it separate. This lets me use it for other things. If it quits I can fix it myself easily. A built in unit you can't so well.
Watch for used pots. You may find a good deal on one with a burnt out temp controller. Buy it Hot wire the element to bypass the bad control and plug it into your pid. A whole new pot. Perhaps keep one pot full of one alloy the other another. I have been watching for a second pot thus way. One even larger to make ladle casting easier. My Lee pot doesn't work so well for a ladle.
Leo

[Priusron]

I have a closed end copper tube immersed in my lead. It is attached to the side of the pot. My thermal couple slips inside the tube. Works great.

[kevin c]

I'm very happy with the two units I got from Hatch (one for the casting bottom pour, the other for the feeder pot above it).

I've never owned a pot with a mounted integral PID. Where does the probe go? Does it protrude into the pot itself, or, if not, is it in contact with the sidewall of the pot? Hatch advises mounting the probe so that it's in the melt, away from the wall, so that its measuring the temp of the alloy, not the side of the pot which may be a lot hotter, being in contact with the heating element.

[StuBach]

Hatch advises mounting the probe so that it's in the melt, away from the wall, so that its measuring the temp of the alloy, not the side of the pot which may be a lot hotter, being in contact with the heating element.

I read this advise somewhere else on the form so I just built a bracket that attaches to the top of my pots (one the snaps on side of Lee and one that uses screw on top of RCBS) and has a hole drilled in it to hold the thermocouple about a half an inch away from the sidewall and from the bottom so I’m just getting temp of alloy. Pretty simple piece of strip aluminum from HD did the trick perfectly.

[lightman]

I read this advise somewhere else on the form so I just built a bracket that attaches to the top of my pots (one the snaps on side of Lee and one that uses screw on top of RCBS) and has a hole drilled in it to hold the thermocouple about a half an inch away from the sidewall and from the bottom so I’m just getting temp of alloy. Pretty simple piece of strip aluminum from HD did the trick perfectly.

I did the same thing on my ProMelt. I cut a piece of flat bar stock, drilled a couple of holes and changed the bolt out to be lone enough for a double nut which allows the bar stock to be swung out of the way for fluxing and such.

[kevin c]

For those of you with a ProMelt2, can you see the probe by looking into the pot (sorry if this is drifting too much)?