Trail Guns

[John Van Gelder]

soflarick

Right on the mark.. I have nothing against Glocks, but feel that there are better choices for less money. The Glock has a pretty loose chamber and that is were they get their reliability, so right off if you are going to reload and use cast bullets a new barrel is in order. It is pretty standard to have bulged cases with Glocks, just look up posts on the "Glock Smile". I have not been a fan of plastic sights since Crosman started putting them on their air guns. I would concur that polymer frame guns tend to shoot a bit softer than the equivalent metal frame guns and my understanding is that there is some flex in the frame.

If you do some shopping there are CZ clones out there in 10mm that come in under the 400 dollar mark, that have good sights and standard rifling. I think the only reason I have never owned a 10mm, is that I have over the years gathered up so much .45ACP brass, bullet molds, dies etc.

If one owns a .45ACP gun there are some pretty easy conversions to .45 Super, which has a slight edge over the 10mm. A friend of mine in Canada was telling me about a loading for the .45ACP that substantially increased the performance. This is the .45-08, they were taking .308 brass cutting it back to .45ACP length, reaming the mouth so the bullets would fit. The only alteration to the gun was the addition of a heavy recoil spring. The .450 SMC is based on a similar principal, they use heavier cases and accept small rifle primers.

Then there is the .460 Roland, but then the conversions get a bit more complex. Another choice is the .38 Super, in most instances not much better than modern 9mm ammunition until you start loading heavy bullets in the Super and you can get 1000 fps+ with a 158 gr. bullet.

[Blind Dog]

Good thread. Here in Colorado bears, cats and meth heads are the worry. I have carried a medium frame .357 for a long time but lately my Glock 30 or my 1911 Commander have seen service. The polymer posse is lighter and gives me 10+1. rounds of .45 ACP.

[John Van Gelder]

I rather like the high capacity .45s my Remington holds 15+1.

[Southern Shooter]

I know this is an old thread. But, this is an issue that I dealt with multiple times over the years. And, back in 2018 found what, for me, is the perfect trail gun for the woods and waters of Louisiana and Mississippi. My problem with the trail gun choice was the weight and bulk and getting in the way when trying to work or ride a four wheeler. After a day in the woods, they all just seem to be such a hassle and they physically got in the way.
So, I ended up with two Charter Arms .44 special Bulldogs. One with the standard hammer. And, the other, the On-duty version with the shrouded hammer. I load 7.5 grains of Power Pistol behind a 240 grain cast semi-wadcutter. Velocities run around 850 FPS. The beauty of it is that loaded they only weigh max 25 ounces. I can wear one of them all day long and not even realize that it is there.
I know that I traded off some power. But, I will never have any reservation about carrying these all day long, down here. These are perfect for me.

[45&30-30]

A Midwestern farm boy, I remember getting out of the Army the first time and working the docks in Seattle. Half the guys I worked with were born and raised in Alaska and went south for their own reasons. I knew i was going to leave the company eventually and head to Idaho so after getting comfortable talking with the older guys over morning and lunch time games of cribbage I'd ask about guns and hunts. To a man they recommended 30-06 or 300 Win Mag and 357 Magnum revolvers. This was the early 90's. Hmm. I bought a Ruger Vaquero in 45 Colt and a Ruger 77 in 300 WinMag.
Being a gun rag reader since a boy, I started reading again. It seemed like most at the time were recommending the 45-70 for the larger game. Setting aside the experienced residents of Alaska I sold the WinMag and got a Marlin in 45-70 before I showed up in North Central Idaho. When I arrived, most had...30-06 and 300 WimMags, some 270's, it was Jack O'Connor country. Hmm. Revolvers..357 Mag and 44 Mag and the odd 41 Magnum showed up. I went through a gun swapping phase and ended up with several more 45 Colts and 44 Magnums. Sold the 45-70 and asked my dad to send a Marlin 30-30 he gifted me the year before I went in the Army. It was made the year I was born. I fed my family in deer and an elk for the next decade with factory ammo. Tried another 300 for a month then went back to the 30-30. All those years I never shot anything over 100 yards or needed to.
I worked on an Indian Reservation where the guys used 7mm's, 270's and 30-06 for everything up to moose and carried 9mm's.
Back in the Army and out again I used the 30-30 and 45 Colt for several years then about a decade with the 30-06 until Montana. Being in big game country full time I switched my pistol to a 4.2" then 3" Ruger SP101 in 357 Magnum six years ago. Loaded with NOE 182 WFN GC boolits. It was 16 grains H110 now it's 17.5 of 300MP. When I leave the property for a hike, hunt or fish, I carry two.
My favorite trail gun story was our first year in Montana. We drove 12 miles on some nasty roads in the National Forest to a poorly marked trailhead that had a one mile hike in to a remote mountain lake. The drive was rougher than the hike if you know what I mean. There were two other trucks at the trailhead. My wife and I wound our way through huckleberry brush and picked and ate as we went passing bear scat. We packed our Magnums under our shirts and I also had a fly rod. We arrived at the lake to find a man in a belly boat out in the middle catching trout every other cast on his fly rod. I tried several flies with no luck as I watched ripples appear from rising trout all around the lake. I watched speckled winged may flies do their mating dance in front of me. Then the belly boatsman came to shore about 70 yards away on the tree and brush choked bank. I set my pole down and walked over to him. Seeing he was much my senior I addressed him as sir and asked him how he did. He held up a limit of cutthroat trout and said he caught them on a Grizzly Wulff and asked if I had one. I didn't. He said, "Here take one" as he opened a box and handed it to me. I thanked him and before I could get another word out he said better get it on your line right now. Yes sir.
I returned, tied it on and caught two trout under 10" which I returned to the water. Then they stopped biting. We lost sight of him in the woods before I could thank him again. We hiked back to the truck. While eating a snack on the tailgate I saw the man coming out on the trailhead with a backpack on. Obviously containing his belly boat. On his hip a medium sized semi automatic pistol. He asked how I did. We walked over as I told him I caught two and thanked him again. He said, Let's see em! He seemed disappointed when I told him I returned them. Then he eyed my wife and I and said you kids need to pack a gun out here and not just for the four legged animals. Yes sir we both are, I said. Then a smile came across his face. Good, he said, I'm 82, none of my friends can hump a 40 pound pack up here anymore so I go alone. Oh and he was packing a .380, more comfortable than I was with my magnum and castboolits.

[44 flattop]

I couldn't help but answer this old(er) thread because I was attacked by a black bear some twenty years ago or a bit longer.

It was in late August and I was hiking into an area closed by a slide and not reopened. I was no more than ten miles from my hometown of less than 700 scouting for elk and deer sign. A bear tag was in my pocket, but I wasn't hunting because it was over ninety degrees. Elk only recently moved into the area and I wanted to see if I could locate a few tracks.

On my way out - perhaps three miles from where I parked - I began hearing something in the fir reprod unit I was hiking through. It was very thick and perhaps thirty feet tall, and I couldn't see more than fifteen feet into it. The noise kept pace with me as I walked and at first I thought it was a deer until realizing it was wasn't retreating, it was keeping up. I'd stop, it would stop. After taking a few more steps, I heard it staying with me, just out of sight.

After about a half mile of cat and mouse, I was getting a bit worried. Although I carried my trusty .44 flattop, I also packed what I call my summer hiking rifle - a Marlin Cowboy in .44 with a 255 grain SWC PB at about 1200fps from a 20" barrel and the stock shortened a bit to fit me better.

I made a hard left where the reprod opened a little and crossed a creek running from deep grass. At that point I could see at least twenty-five yards but didn't see or hear anything over the water and continued straight. After a couple hundred yards was another 90 degree corner to the left with a slight opening beneath the trees, and a big darn bear magically appeared looking straight at me. His head wasn't up, it was more thrust toward me. I stopped instantly aware it was my unknown follower and knew without doubt what was next. It was twenty yards away and there was about five seconds of me thinking to myself no no no no, this SOB is coming for me. To be honest, I could only think of him as a life support system for teeth and claws. Knowing I was being attacked by a black bear I needed to fight to the death. So many things went through my mind in those few seconds.

His ears went back and his head lowered as he started his charge. As was already mentioned, he hit his top speed in only a few steps, and I didn't raise my rifle until he came for me. My shot hit him in the chest. His head was low and I wanted my first bullet to be center mass. He was within ten yards when the bullet turned him and my next two caught him directly behind the shoulders before he turned enough to run straight away. I shot him one last time in the butthole before he could disappear. I'll bet all four rounds sounded almost like one.

Surprisingly, I wasn't jittery or in a panic yet and listened as he plowed through the brush and timber. I hit his trail after the sounds stopped. At first, the blood trail was about twenty feet wide, then narrowed as I followed what looked like the wake of a tractor crashing through with even small trees knocked down. I stayed after him even as the blood trail eventually disappeared. It took me another mile of careful tracking before I found him next to the river far below us. He was dead and one of the shots behind his shoulders actually exited.

There was nothing I could find wrong with him. Great coat, teeth looked good, his belly almost dragged the ground because of his fur. I skinned and quartered him to pack the carcass out, straight uphill of course! He was every bit as big as I initially thought. My revenge for scaring me was I ate him!

What do I carry now? Still my summer hiking rifle, and lately I've been experimenting with a Kimber Longslide in .45 acp loaded with 250gr cast, and a Springfield 1911 in 10mm with 200gr cast. The former is traveling a little under 900fps, the latter at 1200. Both are very accurate.

[John Van Gelder]

I normally have anywhere between 6 and a dozen different bears through here in the summer, last summer I saw three, my neighbor the federal game agent said there were a lot of bears, just not right here, I recently acquired a very aggressive German Shepherd, I suspect she is keeping the bears away. As I get older, I am rapidly approaching the 80 year mark, I find I appreciate the light weight handguns more. I live where it is remote enough, that there are quite a few large predators, bear mt. lions and wolves, I have horses, so I carry a firearm every day, probably more for the protection of my livestock than myself.

Usually of an evening before I retire for the night I walk my fence line to make sure the elk have not knocked down my pasture fences, about a 3/4 mile hike. Back in November, I was making my rounds and saw a pair of eyes in the flashlight beam heading down the horse trail toward me, whatever it was it was too far away to make out the body, and I thought it might be one of my dogs. But wanting to err on the side of caution, I pulled out my sidearm and turned on the laser, the animal kept coming toward me, and when it was about 50 yards away I could make out the body, a fairly large mt. lion, about that time he recalled a previous engagement and turned, I cranked a round off to encourage his departure and much to my relief have seen nothing of the cat since, no tracks, no appearances on any of my trail cameras. My side arm at the time a 9mm loaded with 128 gr, RNFP bullet over 5 gr. of Unique, these produce just over 1200fps according to my chronograph.

I have taken one bear with that load a relatively small (100-150#) black bear, that turned and ran after the shot, he went 20 yards piled up in a vine maple thicket and was quite dead when I found him. I usually get on well with the bears, but this one had turned into a real nuisance, hanging around the house and getting into my feed storage, he had developed a taste for my most expensive horse feed.

[dddddmorgan]

I would second the sentiment of following the teachings of the great Elmer Keith. I have his book on my side table at the moment, reading through "Sixguns."

I cut my teeth on the 357 Magnum and believe it to be a fine round for just about anything. Would I go big bear hunting in Alaska with it? By no means.

My regular carry gun in a model 19 with a 2 1/2" barrel. It's an older one, the action and trigger is simply Smith and Wesson perfection. I can put all 6 shots of 158 grain hard cast on a small paper saucer at 20 yards in short order. And the fact that I can practice with mild 38 Special loads is the icing on the cake.

Which leads me to my conclusion that, like Keith I believe "bigger is better" and like him I appreciate practicing and gaining confidence with "special" loads. Which leads to the natural conclusion that there is no more versatile cartridge/handgun combination than the 44.

I have a lot of experience with a 240 grain hard cast moving about 900 fps or so and I firmly believe that I would not be under-gunned in just about any situation.

Obviously (by my lack of inclusion) I'm a revolver fan over the semi automatic. Don't hate me, I grew up with wheel guns and while a have automatics, I choose to reach for the "old reliable" almost every time.

I just feel Keith was right, a 4" or so single action is light, fast to action and in a good caliber all you need.

[YippyKiYay]

An interesting thread for sure. Here in North TX a heavy sidearm isn't needed unless you fear 2 legged critters or want to plant a hog. I spent over 23 years in Law Enforcement, worked over 50 shootings, mostly suicides. The predominant caliber was the lowly 22 LR, a 50 cal muzzleloading pistol stands out in memory, as does a 12 gauge and a 270, both pretty messy.

In the video where the 2 dudes shoot handguns at a paper target, (I guess they could only afford one target), a couple observations. The "law enforcement" TMJ is what we were given to qualify with, and a box of Ranger SXT (black talons) were for carry. I figured a mag of those FMJ would be perfect "Car Killers" to go through a hood or fender and murder a chevy. I kept one in my mag pouch. A huge show hog got loose and was hit in the rear end by a car, breaking its back. I arrived and was asked by the owner to dispatch the hog and they would butcher it. I swapped mags and the FMJ's were up front.

About 5 feet range and after 3 shots failed to penetrate I switched back to SXT's. The first hollow point killed the hog. My Sgt parted the hair on the hog and the FMJ's didnt break the skull. Not loaded fast enough, as their purpose was to make a Glock cycle and help a cop qualify. I never carried any "law enforcement" FMJ's after that.

My Sgt was a decent shot, grew up country and hunted and shot a lot. We went to serve a warrant and the suspect sicked his bulldog at us. Sarge drew his model 22 in record time and fired 5 times, the first and closest at about 2 feet. The 80 lb dog survived unscathed. Not a scratch. Boy did we ride him about that for a long time.

Its EASY to kill a piece of paper when you have no "Skin in the Game". Its a whole other matter when something (either animal or human) is trying to do you harm.

In Colorado I keep my Ruger 45 Colt with hard cast 255grs loaded to the gills under my pillow. Down here it might be my single six in 32 H&R Mag, or my S&W kit gun.

[Outpost75]

In your LE career did you have the opportunity to work cases where anyone was shot with a .32? Did the rounds bounce off or zip through without making a hole? Or were the victims incapacitated?

[Frosty Boolit]

In your LE career did you have the opportunity to work cases where anyone was shot with a .32? Did the rounds bounce off or zip through without making a hole? Or were the victims incapacitated?

I was shooting bowling pins with a .32 long once. It was factory swc Remington and had to stop because the bullets were bouncing back.

[badguybuster]

Here is something to keep in mind....bears (of all sizes), mountain lions and other predators are VERY quiet in general. You will be fortunate to get 2 or 3 shots at your opposition before its on you. So, make sure you can draw and fire on target quickly. It doesnt matter what you carry if you cant hit it. Especially with bears, most attacks occur in the blink of an eye.

[John Van Gelder]

I worked a homicide case one time when the weapon of choice was a .32, in this case the 32 was quite adequate, it was a .32-20. The gun was an old Colt New Service. I also worked a number of homicides where the weapon was a framing hammer.

[Char-Gar]

I think it all depends on where your trails are. In Texas a hot loaded 38 special, 357 Mag or 45 ACP will do anything that needs to be done when we ago brush poppin.

[Outpost75]

I worked a homicide case one time when the weapon of choice was a .32, in this case the 32 was quite adequate, it was a .32-20. The gun was an old Colt New Service. I also worked a number of homicides where the weapon was a framing hammer.

It was probably either an Army Special or an Official Police, so far as I know. According to Colt Fever dot com, they never made the New Service in .32-20. Factory .32-20 loads in a 5" or 6" barrel seldom exceed 900 fps and don't expand much, but sure are good penetrators! In a strong postwar .32 S&W Long you can do about the same with 3 grains of Bullseye with a 100-grain cast bullet at about 18,000 psi, which works just fine in the S&W Models 30 and 31 and later Colt D-frames. That was sort of my reasoning behind the question. Alot of those "sock drawer" guns could perform yeoman home defense work if suitable loads were produced for them. The .32 H&R Mag factory load performs similarly from a 3" or 4" barrel.

[Char-Gar]

Well all know that Bad Bad Leroy Brown carried a 32 gun in his pocket and a razor in his shoe.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Poor boy....!

DG

[John Van Gelder]

In the above case we never recovered the weapon and based the assumption of what it was on the description of the suspect.

[Markopolo]

its always a matter of what you practice with. I have always carried a 44 mag Large frame Ported revolver with lee 310's.. have been practice shooting that and carrying that for years and years, but never had to use it till last bear season dealing with a large wounded bear in thick dark very close cover here in SE Alaska. believe me, you don't feel recoil or hear much in those situations, and all the practice pays off. Repeat, Repeat, Repeat. its whatever you feel comfy with and can handle well.

[YippyKiYay]

In your LE career did you have the opportunity to work cases where anyone was shot with a .32? Did the rounds bounce off or zip through without making a hole? Or were the victims incapacitated?

I worked an accidental shooting where a self proclaimed "gunsmith" was working on someone's 32 S&W and he hit the hammer with a hammer to free it up. It shot thru his hand and the tin wall.

My buddy worked a case where a guy got drunk over losing his GF, tried to hang himself but the rope broke, then took out a 32 S&W and shot himself under the jaw...or that was the intent. He hit himself IN the lower jaw bone, under the teeth. He decided she wasn't THAT special and he drove himself to the hospital.

Ken Waters has some real snappy loads for the 32 S&W and Long, if you own a solid frame pistol. I've tried them in my 32 H&R Mag, they would get er dun.

Truth is stranger than fiction sometimes.