My Rigby long range 45 cal match rifle

[Buckshot]

Not a real good photo, but the best full rifle shot I have. This was built form a kit offered by Pecantonica River. Initial expense was $420. WIth the exception of the lockplate and the barrel wedge escutchens the other parts were very nice clean sand castings.

The barrel is a Green River 45 cal cartirdge barrel of 6 grooves .450x.458" and 18" twist. It comes with a shop ground finish and required draw filling.


The rifle comes with a patent breech (powder chamber in the breech) and a breakoff breech which is commonly called a hooked breech. Pull the barrel wedge and lift the barrel out of the stock. The otherwise really nice kit is missing a couple details I feel necessary for a rifle of this type.

The first is that there is no blow out plug on the bolster and the other is that the lock isn't a 5 pin, which a match rifle should have. Instead it comes with probably a $50 L&R. It will set off the cap, which is about all the good I have to say about it. A 5 pin with the sear hung on it's own pivit allows a much finer trigger in both feel and function. There was no other option at the time. One thing the L&R does have is an extremely short fall. he checkeing on the hammer was done with a thread chasing file :P


The straight grained Black Walnut stock was extremely well inlet and there could not have been an improvement made there. Any mortices were left 1/32nd wood for final fit, if that much. I found it odd that no forend tip is in the kit, nor do they even offer one. I had to go to those lunkheads at Great American Gunstocks for a block of Ebony to finish it off.

The standing breech tang was very short and unsuitable for mounting a tang type sight. Somehitng else I thought odd. I cut the existing one off and welded on a longer one out of HRS. When it was blued you can barely see the difference between the 2 steels. I then silver soldered on a lug for mounting the tang sight. The story about it on a different post.


I think the front sight turned out really well and looks 'period'. As back in the heyday of these match rifles, all the windage was done via the front sight. HEck, you were standing up to reload and the front sight is right there and handy! This particular sight actually belongs to the Swedish Ag42B gas operated 6.5x55 semi-automatic rifle.

I cut the base of whcih is supposed to go around the barrel. Then I filed in 3 flats to match the octagon barrel and soldered it on. These are available from Springfield Sporters pretty inexpensively. Or WERE. anyway. They come with 7 different height front blades and hoods.

So that's the rifle. All in all a really nice kit for the money, but room for improvement. You can buy the kit complete as they offer it, or you can leave parts out you don't want. I guess you could fit thimbles and drill the stock to accept a ramrod and turn it into a heckuva BP hunting rifle. Basicly it's a muzzle loading 45-90 in power and ballistics launching a 540gr boolit over 85.0 grains or so of BP.

...................Buckshot

[shooter575]

Buckshot,That is a nice piece. I allways thought about building a "what if" Springfield long range rifle. Using a trapdoor stock, and furniture.Musket lock. Barrel would use a 61 type breech with a .45 barrel with trapdoor profile.That one has a cleanout screw. Guy that does my barrel work says no problem and I can pick rifling type and twist. Dunlop could cut the stockwith out the reciever mortice
For sights a neet buffington type was used on the .69 Plymouth navy rifle
Figure I could buld it for 600-700 range or so depending on sights.Oh well.

[Hang Fire]

Great looking rifle. I was reading sometime back that the Brits still hold 1,000-1,200 yard shoots with them.

[Buckshot]

.............Yes they do, and they have them here too. The last was held in 2004 at Quantico. A guy shooting the new Pedersoli long range match rifle reproduction (I think Rigby style) set a new record at 1000 or in LR aggregate (800, 900, and 1000 yards).

Some silhuette matches will allow muzzle loaders and to shoot at and knock over the 500 meter rams requires a rifle like these, shooting 500+ gr conicals, and good sights.

.................Buckshot

[RBak]

Buckshot....What nipple are you using? How does a "standard" niple hold up for you? I hear some of the guys shooting LRML using Platinum Lined nipples.

My one and only experience with the rigby was a few years back on the Sillhouette Range. The owner of the rifle had it "dialed in" on the Ram gonger and asked me if I wanted to give it a try....Well, I did. And, I feel in love with that thing!
Knocking the crap out of that Ram was more fun than anything I had shot at that range before.
However, after about twenty five or so shots, things went south on me....not to worry, replaced the nipple and she was right back on again.
The guy told me that 75 (+/- ) shots was about his best with a regular nipple, but he had some ordered that should get him up around 500 or so.

I just wondered what your experience with this is.

Russ

[Buckshot]

...........RussB, I use Beryllium-copper nipples. A platinum or carbide lined nipple would last almost forever. My Be-Cu ones only last about 60-75 full power rounds. I'm surprised your friend is getting that service from plain steel ones. I bought some 'hardened' steel nipples from Dixie for $2.25/ea (should have been a clue right there) nad they were about worthless in 15 shots.

It was a design fault in that the restriction at the base was so short it didn't take much to burn'em through. I've never messed with getting a top shelf lined nipple because it just seemed like a bunch of footwork and effort with no guarentee you'd end up with one in the end.

I've asked some of my shooting buddies, "When did you change you nipple last" and they'd look at me funny trying to figure out why I was asking, then they'd say, "Why?". ALL these guys save one are shooting those generic half stock Hawken type rifles. Guess they have the nipples they came with still in them. The other guy is a dyed in the wool CW musket man and knows his P's and Q's.

After several months of trying to re-invent the wheel I was finally getting some decent results at 200 meters with the Whitworth. He remarked, "It's about time. I haven't been very impressed to this point."

Well, gee!

...............Buckshot

[carpetman]

Right here on google search,you can search "nipples".

[RBak]

Thanks Buckshot.....I guess what he was saying is considered the "norm" when shooting these LRML's. I will have one some day, of course I said that a couple of years ago and it hasn't come about yet.
Soooo many goodies, soooo little time.


Russ

[Buckshot]

Right here on google search,you can search "nipples".

..............I wonder how many jewelery, plumbing, pipe suppliers, hose places, pump outfits, air compressor companies, and such you'd have to wade through ?

...............Buckshot

[shooter575]

My very first online search ever was at work on a buddys putter.I was planing a new shop for home.Anyway I was thinking about useing steel framing.So I typed in "steel studs" Boy oh boy did I get hits on that one.I clicked on the first hit. Bad idea. Then I couldnt get back! I finaly just pulled the plug.BTW none had anything to do with construction materials!
Lesson learned that day...Keywords are important.

[carpetman]

..............I wonder how many jewelery, plumbing, pipe suppliers, hose places, pump outfits, air compressor companies, and such you'd have to wade through ?

...............Buckshot

Buckshot---somehow,I never made it to those type nipples.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

What a splendid rifle! Shouldn't everybody be doing this? I have always liked a fast-twist, heavy-bullet .450. It ought to be quite a bit more effective at long range than the .45-90, which normally has a much lighter bullet.

As to the trigger, an option open to people who don't have to follow nineteenth century British match-rifle rules is a double-set trigger. It lts you do all the dry-firing practice you like, in perfect safety, too.

That really is very short nipple life, and since I've never heard of comparable erosion of the bore or breech interior, it must be because of high-speed gas escape through the nipple. This might be minimised by working on the inside of the recess in the hammer face with a Dremel tool and stones or burrs, and testing contact with a smoky flame. If the nipple makes contact all round its circumference, so will the copper cap. If a set trigger is used, substituting a heavier mainspring might help, too.

[waksupi]

Ballistics in Scotland- Welcome back! Good to see you posting here!

[wills]

My very first online search ever was at work on a buddys putter.I was planing a new shop for home.Anyway I was thinking about useing steel framing.So I typed in "steel studs" Boy oh boy did I get hits on that one.I clicked on the first hit. Bad idea. Then I couldnt get back! I finaly just pulled the plug.BTW none had anything to do with construction materials!
Lesson learned that day...Keywords are important.

Google sure has improved things. I just searched steel studs and got page after page of construction materials.

Search "percussion nipples"

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=...ff&sa=N&tab=wf

[shooter575]

BiS Let me welcome you here also.This does just make my day! I have mised your posts. Seems like ages ago that we were on Shooters.

[KCSO]

Buckshot
I am getting ready to start one of these now. I like your front sight idea. I am turning the front of the bbl round for a straight starter and am going to try paper patched bullets. Is your trigger a single set? How are your groups running so far? I ran into that nipple problem when I built a 62 caliber elk rifle for a friend, he insisted on using 180 grains of powder over a 62 ball and was burining out nipples in one range session.

[45nut]

Ballistics in Scotland- Welcome back! Good to see you posting here!

I second that !

[Buckshot]

..........BIS, how nice to see you posting here, and thanks for the compliment on the rifle. I may just invest in some set triggers. It's been bedded which is also a rules no-no, so the trigger wouldn't be out of place.

You posting from the owld country or Arabia?

[QUOTE=KCSO]Buckshot
I am getting ready to start one of these now. I like your front sight idea. I am turning the front of the bbl round for a straight starter and am going to try paper patched bullets. Is your trigger a single set? How are your groups running so far? QUOTE]

.........One of the other reasons I had for setting the front sight back was to have room for a starter. I didn't have a lathe at the time to turn the end of the barrel round for one tho'.

So far my best group consistancey at 200 meters (farthest I can shoot at the range) has been -4 " for 5 rounds. On occasion you'd have the usual, being 2-4 nice and tight and one or two to open it up. No set trigger on the rifle.

..............Buckshot

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Thank you, Shooter575, 45nut and Wakupsi for your kind remarks. I am in Saudi Arabia, but around the end of May I'll escape for nearly three months as usual. It's hell, but somebody has to do it!

The usual practice with paper-patch muzzle-loaders was to have a separate guide starter and false muzzle, the latter being rifled. It used to be temporarily soldered in place and rifled with the barrel. Part of the reason for this was the danger of wearing the start of the lands, which was probably due mostly to extremely soft iron barrels. I think that with well-patched bullets and modern barrel steels, you could get away with the starter alone. But what used to be said, was that this is good practice only with lubed and grooved bullets.

The best illustrated source on all this (which I've never done, please understand) is Ned Roberts's "The Muzzle-loading Cap Lock Rifle". I have the elaborately gold-tooled NRA leather edition, which earned me exaggerated respect in a Saudi airport once. W'Allah, the Peoples of the Book are to be respected!

The big snag about a rifled false muzzle cut from the barrel blank, is that you can't do it with just an inch and a half or so of barrel, unless you start from the round and grind the complete assembly octagonal afterwards. The sawcut can't be of negligible thickness, so if the rifling is in line, the octagonal exterior can't be. If you assume (as I think you can with a quality modern barrel) that you can simply rotate the false muzzle till the next groove comes into line, you would have to cut out 2¼in. from an eight-groove, 18in. twist barrel. Your 34in. barrel would turn into just over 30in.

I would make and bore the starter, and a brass mandrel which is a close fit in the starter, and a thou or two over land diameter. I would temporarily soft-solder it into the starter, and tap the mandrel into the bore, engraving it with the rifling like a hard, undersize bullet. Then you do whatever you do to hold the starter in line in use. As an alternative to that round muzzle, it could be made to fit a rebated muzzle (done with a piloted aircraft counterbore), or locate with two or more pins which fit holes in the muzzle. In the latter case, you would have to make the plunger or lever part of the starter separately, and silver solder it to the cylindrical body after drilling the holes in body and muzzle at the same time.

A system I've never heard of being used in modern times, but which would certainly enable you to combine patching with the single starter, is the original crosspatch. Either a cross-shaped paper patch or two or more criss-crossed strips of paper are laid in shallow recesses across the face of the muzzle, and the starter with the naked bullet in it is then placed on top of them. As the bullet is driven home, the strips are drawn around it and enclose it.

I'm a bit sceptical of blow-out plugs and vent plugs, which I'm convinced don't do any good until after the good hasn't been done. After all, revolvers have a much larger and permanent gap all round, and it makes scarcely any difference to the pressure you would get in a single-shot. My Bohemian Kehlner double rifle appears to have platinum vent plugs, but while a thin wire slides easily into empty space through the right-hand one, it comes up against solid metal on the left, where escaping gas is undesirable. The hole is a dummy. (Shame about left-handers, though!) If you want a plug, though, you could cut a recess with an end-mill or by acid etching, and fill it with stainless steel (peened out into a slight undercut) or silver solder. The only way of telling stainless steel from platinum in something that small, is by treating it in ways nobody would treat platinum if he'd paid for it.

[Hang Fire]

Ballistics in Scotland:

Some very sound thoughts there on the PP boolits, thanks for the info.

Like others, I too will have one of these precision pieces someday. Love the idea of a long range ML rifle, if for no other reason, just to have a fun rifle as an across the canyon rock buster, for I am not into competitive shooting