Wow, Charter arms offers a 41 magnum bulldog? And Ruger still won't make a 41 magnum GP100?
No doubt 41 magnum offers more usefulness than 44 special or 45 ACP. 45 ACP would be a fun range gun, but I'm not sold on the ejector. For a bedside gun I always thought the 6" 357 magnum target model had a cool simplicity look, and shoots great.
Starting on loads' development with the .41.
It's going to be interesting to see how much penetration (and maybe even expansion) is achievable with what boolit weights with manageable recoil.
Definitely leaning towards semi-kinda-heavy hollow point full flat faced wadcutters.
I have a Charter Arms .41 mag Pug (23 oz) and a Taurus Titanium 2.5” .41 Magnum (21 oz)
Here are some chrono results from the Charter 2.5”. Labradar results at the muzzle and 55 deg f (45 deg f for the last two).
180gr Barnes ….… 1,195 fps (21 es)
230gr HSM …….… 1,145 fps (28 es)
230gr Underwood .. 1,263 fps (18 es)
250gr Grizzly …….. 1,169 fps (4 es)
210gr Fed Swift A Frame .. 1,191 fps (1 es)
210gr Grizzly Punch …….. 1,239 fps (20 es)
Grizzly Punch is a bit too long to function reliably in either. Pulled three of the facory bullets. The factory rounds were loaded with 22.0gr of powder that looks exactly like H110/W296.
Resized two cases and loaded one with 20.5gr of the Grizzly factory powder (w/factory primer) and one with 20.5gr H110 (w/CCI350) and reseated the bullets to an OAL of 1.581”.
Loaded the third bullet in a starline .41 special case primed with CCI350 and 18.0gr of the Grizzly factory powder from the original cartridge. Crimped in the bullets crimp grove it’s OAL was 1.528”.
Following are the chronograph for the 2.5” Tauras Ti Tracker. LabRadar 35 deg F.
150gr Underwood Leghigh Xtr Defender …. 1,342 fps
210gr Punch – 41 Special 18.0gr H110 …. 1,149 fps
210gr Punch – Reseated 1.581” Factory … 1,115 fps (no discernable diff between powders – (ES - 20 fps)
250gr WFNGC Grizzly Cartridge factory …. 1,159 fps
215gr SWCBB HiTec, 6.8gr Univ Deep Seated and crimped over front dr band …. 839 fps.
The 250gr WFNGC Grizzly is a handful in both guns. Overall, the Taurus recoils a bit less than the Charter. The Charter recoil reminds me of shooting similar loads thru a S&W M329 Ti/Sc 44 mag. The 215gr SWC over 6.8 univ is easy shooting recoil wise.
In my hands, both guns shoot quite high at 25 yds with heavier loads.
Here are the two guns:
Working with the Lee 195 SWC's (220 & 250 grains), the NEI SWC GC (240 grains), Lyman WC (212 grains), Lee RN (240 grains), Lyman RN (245 grains) and soon the NEI RN (185 grains).
Got a really fun mold too with a pointed design but that will probably just be used in the rifle. The big gas checked WC is a bore rider that will be tried in the rifle.
Good Cheer...was wondering where you got the unique mold...
After Walt at NEI had passed away and his daughter and son in law tried running the business, I sent a four cavity mold back to them to get it recut to larger size bullets with three SWC and one spire point. Had picked up the mold 2nd hand out of a box of many in a little store in southeast Texas. Paid maybe ten dollars for it. The recutting charges were very reasonable and the work was well done. Afterwards one of the SWC's was reworked to produce the big bore rider.
This thing.
Recently been thinking about it getting a hollow point, deep and wide, but first would like to see how it performs in the .41 Mag NEF single shot.
Last edited by Good Cheer; 01-05-2020 at 08:30 PM.
Pardon, I think the way the alterations went was making a spire point cavity into the heavy bore rider and the GC base on the remaining spire point made into a plain base.
I've had a Charter 44 Special or two since the 80's, light and handy, but not a fun plinker with any but the lightest loads. Also have a 2" titanium 45 LC, its on the Taurus 'L' frame, kind of like a 2" Tracker, it is bulkier than the Charter but also a handful. We (wife & I) carry with shot for rattlers, bullets in black bear country. Both are more accurate than most expect from short barrels. My first choice would be the Charter 44, then the new, larger Charter 45. Bud's lists Charter 44's with 4" and 6" barrels with adjustable sights too. Long ago, had a blue Charter 44 Target 4", one of those guns I regretted trading long after the fact. If they bring out the 45 in a 4" adjustable sights I will have to have one.
".41 Mag NEF single shot"...excuse me....and who rebored that one...JES? I have one of the 16.5" TC Collectors Assoc. barrels on a TC thumbhole stock carbine...a great shooter...
Sounds like a great mold...
Have you chronographed that 295...? I have a 300 grain Mountain Mold that really shoots great from a FA 83...19.0 H110 at 1260 from a 6" barrel...
For a snubbie .41....
https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.p...pslilemfvuf2d5
For a snubbie .44...
https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.p...pslilemfvuf2d5
For a snubbie .45...
https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.p...pslilemfvuf2d5
Righto! JES did a fine job.Originally Posted by RJM52
No, I haven't chrono'd yet.
I have both the Bulldog Classic 3" .44 Special and the Mag Pug .41 Magnum. The Bulldog is on the "Large" frame and the Mag Pug is on the "XL" frame. Both are 5- shooters.
The barrel, cylinder walls and top strap are fairly thick on the .41 Mag Pug. These guns are quite strong, but being lightweight they will end up as an unreliable rattle bucket after thousands of full bore magnum rounds. It's just not what they are meant for.
Remington 180 HTP factory ammo (Barnes XPB bullet) - 1222 fps 23 sd, 50 ft 1-7/8" -0-
Magnus 215 SWC, 18.0 gr LilGun - no chrono, 50 ft 2" -0-
Little revolver shoots to the sights, but the above loads are a hand full. 41 Special loads are more pleasant:
Rimrock 235 SWC, 8.0 gr Power Pistol - 963 fps 4 sd, 50 ft 2.5", -0-
Magnus 215 SWC, 5.5 gr Titegroup - 878 fps 8 sd, 50 ft 1-3/8" -0-
GT 175 RNHP, 8.5 gr Power Pistol - 1064 fps 11 sd, 50 ft 2" -0-
In the Linebaugh Penetration Tests, an equivalent load to the Rimrock above penetrated 26". I think thats sufficient for a lightweight outdoors protection load.
The GT bullet might be a nice defensive load against thinner critters:
The factory rubberish grips are OK, but the Pachmayrs Compacts are better for the stout loads. Also, the cylinder fits SAAMI-spec 210 grain jacketed factory loads - the Rimrock bullet seated in the crimp groove in Magnum brass is too long. All the above handloads are in Starline .41 Special brass.
Last edited by Kuduking; 01-15-2022 at 02:46 AM.
Has anyone seen any of the CA guns for sale... I've been watching for a .41 but have not seen any for sale in over a year...
My opinion, I think most all Charters are victim to the general shortage we see. Being inexpensive, they fill a lot of first-time buyer demand. Gunbroker, for example has seven (!) Bulldogs for sale.
I expect them to remain in the slim pickens territory for quite a while so if you see one, I'd jump hard & fast were I you.
Cogito, ergo armatum sum.
(I think, therefore I'm armed.)
Charter Arms revolvers were never that popular. Most LGS in Detroit didn't carry them. Occasionally, ran across one in 38 caliber. Bulldogs, I've never seen one in LGS in Michigan or here in Arkansas. I had to purchase my Bulldog off GB, sight unseen, before the current madness. LGS couldn't even order one from their suppliers. However, I did use them to handle the transfer.
Winelover
I was speaking with the gunsmith at the factory a couple of weeks ago, and he said they haven't made a .41 Mag Pug in a while, and have been making mostly the aluminum frame models. Not sure if that is due to demand, or a materials supply issue.
I see them fairly often out here. There's definitely less of them than Ruger's and Smiths though, they are rare enough they stick out. Not too long ago I was in a gun shop in Glencoe, MN, and they had a 6" 357 magnum target model for something like $525. I kind of wish I had bought it now.
Earlier in this thread, I posted some chrono results for the 41 Pug. Have had it for several years. Here's a picture.
Charter Arms is really a small company compared to Ruger and S&W. I read somewhere that they only were making about 25-30,000 guns a year (a while ago). Ruger most likely does that in a month or two. I have noticed that different guns from them tend to come up in batches on Gun Broker. Suspect that they make dedicated runs of different calibers on a rotating basis.
I have a 44 and a 45ACP along with a 38 6 shot and a 32 6 shot. All are full SS guns (no alloy frames) and the 45ACP has the black finish. The 44 has a factory laser. Both the 44 and the 45ACP are brutal with factory loads.
I have toured the plant. The current owner is a nice gentleman who I believe would go out of his way to satisfy a customer.
Founder of the Single Shot section.
A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have.
8 in the 10 ring, then I get a PING. Love my Garand.
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