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Thread: Colt Lightning 44/40

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Colt Lightning 44/40

    Right, not a levergun but didn't know where to post that was better. Anyway, I have lyman design round nose that casts around 200gr. 2 lube grooves no crimp kinda like the 42798. Barrel looks good enough for a cast bullet. Suspect the action isn't much stronger than thw Winchester '73. Would like the load that gives me max velocity and 11,000-13,000 cup. I'm aware of the titegroup load and have lost interest in trail boss. Any suggestions would be welcome. I think Colt revolver bores were .427+or-. Anyone have some idea before I start slugging?

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    I have found that all .44-40 rifles and revolvers shoot well with a soft 1 to 30 tin-lead alloy 200-208 grain bullet of .430" diameter and 6 grains of Bullseye or TiteGroup, or 6.5 grains of WST, Red Dot or 452AA. Velocity and pressure approximates factory loads. With smokeless powder I prefer a bullet with a crimp groove to avoid having to damage the bullet trying to crimp over the ogive, and to positively prevent bullets from telescoping into the case from compression of the magazine spring.

    My favorite is 43-206H from Accurate.
    You can also order this moild to cast a plain base if you don't care for the bevel.

    Attachment 249655Attachment 249656
    Last edited by Outpost75; 10-20-2019 at 10:47 AM.
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master


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    The HODGDON Cowboy Reloading Handout Jan 2003 shows 5.0 - 6.2grs of TiteGroup in the .44-40 with a 200gr bullet.

    What Outpost 75 said.
    I HATE auto-correct

    Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.

    My Experience and My Opinion, are just that, Mine.

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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by salvadore View Post
    Right, not a levergun but didn't know where to post that was better. Anyway, I have lyman design round nose that casts around 200gr. 2 lube grooves no crimp kinda like the 42798. Barrel looks good enough for a cast bullet. Suspect the action isn't much stronger than thw Winchester '73. Would like the load that gives me max velocity and 11,000-13,000 cup. I'm aware of the titegroup load and have lost interest in trail boss. Any suggestions would be welcome. I think Colt revolver bores were .427+or-. Anyone have some idea before I start slugging?
    The Colt Lightning is considered a Group 1 "weak action" rifle like the Winchester 73' according to Lyman's 49th Edition reloading manual.

    Always good to slug anyway. Many older rifles are reported to slug anywhere from as small as .424 to as high as .432.

    Lyman lists the following for "Group 1" max loads and also lists a 19" Navy Arms Winchester 73' as the test rifle used;

    cast .429 #2 Alloy

    The highest velocity loads listed are;

    Lyman 200gr #427666
    17gr IMR-4227 @ 1,310fps 11,600cup

    Speer 200gr #4425 JHP
    18.5gr IMR-4227 @ 1,212fps 12,600cup

    Lyman 200gr #427098
    8gr Green Dot @ 1,194fps 12,900cup

    SAAMI MAX LOADS: Pages 21 & 33
    https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...sting-Copy.pdf

    11,000psi/13,000cup


    My personal load data for .429 barrels.

    CCI-300 primers and Starline brass

    ACME .429 hard cast "Magma" design such as Oregon Trail's Laser Cast "Cowboy"
    25gr Reloder 7 @ 1,348fps and 10,000psi
    26gr Reloder 7 @ 1,433fps and 11,500psi (Max 11,000psi)
    27gr Reloder 7 @ 1,568fps and 13,602psi (Max 11,000psi)

    Size does matter...
    30gr Reloder 7 with a 200gr Winchester .4255" JSP, 1,400fps @ 11,300psi (warning- Although psi is in range, the burning rate, heat and other unknowns may be somewhat unstable with this load...maybe, maybe not)
    Last edited by Savvy Jack; 10-14-2019 at 05:40 PM.

  5. #5
    Here is one of the last targets I shot two months ago, 8-17-2019

    This load is used in my Uberti 73' (scoped), but of course is more than likely a little stronger than an original or a Colt...maybe, maybe not!

    I did not pressure test this bullet but is basically the same design as the 43-215C and Lyman 427098.

    43-214A, 220gr 25.8gr Reloder 7, CCI-300 primers, starline brass
    an estimated 11,000psi, 1,354fps from the first ten shots of a 40 shot group @ 100 yards
    Temp - 80deg humid, 8am

    Attachment 249688

    Attachment 249689

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thanks gang, the info included loads I haven't found. I planned on slugging the bore before getting mold and sizing die. The rifle has a nice barrel for a bp shooter and has been to Great Britain at some point in its life. This was a spur of the moment purchase and am not a Colt Lightning expert beyond what I learned on the net. I found an exploded view but cant figure how it locks up. Once again thanks and any other info would be appreciated.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    In my Cimarron Firearms 1873 Sporting Rifle with 24" barrel, I get an average 1329 FPS when shooting a bullet cast from an Accurate 43-215C (John Kort's design) on top of 2.2cc (35 grains) of Swiss 3Fg black powder in Starline brass with Federal #150 primers. SD was only 11 FPS. The bullet is cast from 1:20 and average weight is 219 grains.

    Accuracy with this load is very good at 50 yards, under 2" from the bench. That's as good as I can shoot with irons.

  8. #8
    Boolit Man
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    I would strongly suggest you refrain from using round nose bullets in this rifle. In rifles with tube type magazines there is always a chance of a chain fire with round nose bullets. In the spirit of safety, I would encourage you to look for a mold that casts a flat nose bullet. Maybe call LBT molds and see what is available in a bullet mold that drops a 200 to 220 grain LFN bullet.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    ^^^^THIS!^^^^

    Especially because .44-40 is normally loaded with PISTOL primers, you want to use a flat-nosed bullet having a meplat of not ness than half of bullet diameter, or approximately the full diameter of the primer or greater.
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  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master
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    SAECO #446 has become my "Go-to" bullet in 44/40 WCF. Nice crimp groove, sufficient lube capacity for smokeless loadings, and enough finished size to fit most throats. In 30/1 alloy, my mould drops them at a few tenths under .431". I size them at .431", which doesn't fully 'clean up' the drive bands but establishes lube where it needs to be. The throat on my 1897-made Win '73 carbine is .429", my 2012-model Uberti Cattleman throats will pass a .428" pin gauge but not a .429".

    I use 25.0 grains of Reloder 7 per the late John Kort's recommendations. It gives better accuracy and smaller SDs than 2400, 4227, or Unique did. 1200 FPS +/- in the 19" carbine, 850-875 FPS in the 4-3/4" Uberti. Starline brass, CCI 300 primers. There are a few powder granule "zombies" in the revolver barrel after firing, the carbine barrel is a little gritty afterward.

    If it ever suits you to try black powder in your 44/40 WCF, DO NOT DO what I did--use shallow-grooved Lee 200 grain bullets with SPG and Goex (Flaming Dirt) 3F powder. This combo fouled out by carbine's barrel within 6 rounds. Get one of Dick Dastardly's Big Lube bullet moulds, and use a better-grade powder like KIK or Swiss. CCI 350 primers, too. I would have to become very jaded and bored to try that sort of entertainment again.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    I bow to folks that have actually loaded the 44/40 for rifles that are 130+ years old. I kind of remember purchasing round nose cartridges for a 94 30/30 back in the late sixties, but I do plan on using pistol primers. The bore appears to slug out to .430 +. My load research is confusing since many of the suggestions are for shooters that weren't made into the smokeless era for smokeless loads then warn not to use anything but BP. I will use the rn bullet because it's the right weight and I already have it, planned on two in the mag before operating the action etc. Btw the bullet is a modern version of the Anderton bullet and since I plan on maxing out at two in the magazine don't expect any set back. Anyway, thanks for the help and wish me luck.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by salvadore View Post
    My load research is confusing since many of the suggestions are for shooters that weren't made into the smokeless era for smokeless loads then warn not to use anything but BP.
    For the 44-40, not using smokeless powders in older black powder firearms is a myth. During the advent of smokeless, Winchester's new smokeless powder cartridges were warned not to be used in pistols was made specifically for the Winchester Model of 73, and Model of 92'. Winchester, more than likely, did not want the responsibility of people using their new smokeless loads in revolvers they knew nothing about at that time. Obviously a testing issue I guess. It was a short time later that the warning was removed as smokeless powders were improved.

    When Bulleseye and Unique were introduced, it was soon preferred and used in the 44-40 for revolvers with no warnings not to be used in black powder firearms. This doesn't mean a steady dose of the higher pressure spiking powder was good for the old farts.....but it certianly would not make them go "Kaboom" in their sleep. Therefore Rifles and Revolvers could be loaded with the different powders.

    For handloaders, two different powders were offered for the 44-40....PISTOL POWDERS and RIFLE POWDERS.

    Winchester currently loads their factory ammunition "safe" for every firearm out there chambered for the 44-40 as long as the weapon is not a piece of junk. Buffalo Bore manufactures a much higher velocity load for the 44-40 that they claim is also safe for any weapon chambered for the 44-40 BUT goes one step further to warn against using their ammunition in older weapons with smaller bores [than .427].

    The 44-40 started life as a Rifle Cartridge and still is a Rifle Cartridge that uses both rifle and pistol powders.


    Again historic powders for the 44-40 are:


    Black Powder

    This is an area I have yet to explore in detail. I'd like to just start off with Winchester's 1895 Catalog #55 and then update later.
    After the Civil War manufactures started using the F system to designate black powder granular.


    From Winchester's August 1895 catalog

    ​"For the 32, 38, and 44 WCF rifles and ALL center-fire pistol cartridges:

    ​American Powder Mills' "Rifle Cartridge, No. 4"
    Hazard Powder Company's "Kentucky Rifle F.F.G."
    E. I. DuPont. de Nemours & Co.'s "Dupont Rifles F.F.G."
    Laflin & Rand Powder Co.'s "Orange Rifle Extra, F.F.G."



    ​For powder to be used in rifle cartridges containing more than 40 grains, we recommend the following brands and sizes of grains as giving the best results:

    ​American Powder Mills' "Rifle Cartridge, No. 3"
    Hazard Powder Company's "Kentucky Rifle F.G."
    E.I. DuPont. de Nemours & Co.'s "Dupont Rifles F.G."
    Laflin & Rand Powder Co.'s "Orange Rifle Extra, F.G.""




    Smokeless Powders used in the early smokeless days https://sites.google.com/view/44winc...ridges/powders

    Laflin & Rand - "Sporting Powder for Rifles and Revolvers" (Bulk Powder)
    Dupont - "Smokeless Rifle #2" (Bulk for Bulk powder)
    Laflin & Rand "Sharpeshooter" for black powder rifles (Bulk Powder)
    Hurcules "Bulleseye" for revolvers only!!
    Dupont "Sporting Rifle #80" (SR80)
    Dupont "No. 1204" (IMR1204)
    Hurcules "Unique" for rifles and revolvers!!

    IMR-4227...was a direct replacement for IMR-1204

    4227 is IMR's magnum powder like 2400 is a magnum powder......simply a rifle powder that performs well in magnum calibers which ironically include some black powder capacity cartridges.


    Back to your Colt "Lightning" rifle......if it is in good sound shape and has the larger bore as you described, there is absolutely no reason smokeless powder can not be used with modern 200gr to 220gr 44 Special and 44 Magnum DIAMETER bullets. However, keep in mind that it should be considered a "weak action" and is included in Lyman's Weak Action "Group I" rifle category.
    Last edited by Savvy Jack; 10-29-2019 at 07:47 AM.

  13. #13
    Here is some more information worthy of reading

    https://sites.google.com/view/44winc...f-of-ordinance

    note page 27

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy shrapnel's Avatar
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    I have a bunch of 44-40 and 38-40 rifles in Marlin, Whitney Kennedy, Winchester, Burgess and Colt lightning as well as Colt Burgess and I have shot them all with Trail Boss and Unique powder and killed everything I shot at with them. 10's of thousands of rounds through these original guns with smokeless powder...









    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails thumbnail_IMG_6083.jpg  

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Absolutely SPLENDID collection!

    If you have a favorite bullet and load combination which shoots well in most or all of the rifles, which would be your "Go To" to check out a new find, what would you recommend?

    I'd love to have specifics on what you have found works, bullet, alloy, lube, etc. I am presuming you have settled on good, ordinary, conventional loads which are carefully assembled and well executed, without VooDoo or wierd science. Having a well-proven "recipe" which simply works is a great thing.

    Inquiring minds would like to know. I expect that few of us here would be surprised, but the validation of basics using such a wonderful cross-section of vintage rifles would be both affirming and educational.
    The ENEMY is listening.
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  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thank you mr. Shrapnel for first hand info on the colt lightning. Not to diminish all other posts.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Maven's Avatar
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    Yes, a splendid collection, Shrapnel! And nice to see you posting again and give my regards to Mike V.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    I use the rcbs 200 gr flatpoint in my .44-40 's a 73 Winchester a 92 carbine a uberti 66 repro. and a Dakota pistol.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    One more time, thanks for the excellent help. I mentioned in one of my posts that the shooter had been to GB as indicated by the proof marks. My surmise is that it was a lend lease item. Has anyone else noticed british proof marks on their original guns? Particularly mr. Shrapnel and his extended collection. I realize it may have been imported for sale to a brit civilian before they went crazy.

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy shrapnel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    Absolutely SPLENDID collection!

    If you have a favorite bullet and load combination which shoots well in most or all of the rifles, which would be your "Go To" to check out a new find, what would you recommend?

    I'd love to have specifics on what you have found works, bullet, alloy, lube, etc. I am presuming you have settled on good, ordinary, conventional loads which are carefully assembled and well executed, without VooDoo or wierd science. Having a well-proven "recipe" which simply works is a great thing.

    Inquiring minds would like to know. I expect that few of us here would be surprised, but the validation of basics using such a wonderful cross-section of vintage rifles would be both affirming and educational.
    I have found that the pistol cartridge calibers are quite forgiving and don't require the attention that most cast rifle bullets need. I have been buying whatever brand of cast bullets I can find for the 44-40 and 38-40 in 200 and 180 grain bullets respectively. I get the typical flat point bullets and buy them by the 1000's. I use Trail Boss powder in the 38-40 and Unique powder in the 44-40. No reason to use 2 different powders, but I have a lot of both. I have also noticed that even though I use only one load for each cartridge, all the guns seem to be accurate to MOR "minute of rabbit"...










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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check