What's a better deer rifle? .357 Magnum or 45 Long Colt?

[gwpercle]

Lets clarify a few things :
We talking modern rifles like Winchester model 92 or 94 .
Handloads not limited to 45 Colt black powder low pressure loads .
Not limited to factory ammo but using ammo we handload .
If yes ... Then 45 Colt !
Bullet of choice - Lyman #454424 - 255 gr. SWC

Being a graduate of the Elmer Keith school of thought ...
A big heavy slug will kill deer better than a smaller lighter faster one .
Gary

[Wireman134]

What's a better deer rifle? .357 Magnum or 45 Long Colt?
What bullet would you recommend?
Thanks

310gr Lee RF

[Griff]

The 45 Colt verse the 45 Long Colt nomenclator has be going on for over a hundred years. While the term Long Colt has never been an official designation it is helpful for the masses to ensure they get the proper ammo. That was true in the day when the Schofield was common and even more true today with non-gun types have confusion over the 45 ACP verse the other 45 Cal options.

https://www.ammoland.com/2016/09/45-...#axzz64pASHVlX

Not quite the whole story. There was a round that was called the 45 Colt Government. Shorter than the 45 Colt and loaded with 28 grains of BP using the same 250 grain round nose. Discontinued well before WWII, and not seen since... except:
The Long & Short of the .45 Colt. But even that does nothing to alter the fact that 45 Colt is the name of the cartridge under discussion. No "long" about it.

As for a bullet in the 45 Colt? I happen to like the ~228 grain TC I get from the RCBS 45-225-CAV. It has a nice wide meplat (wide enough), a good sized grease groove suitable for smokeless or BP, a crimp groove... and feeds like a champ thru any of the 5 - 45 Colt leverguns I have. 1 - Rossi, 2 - Ubertis, & 1 Marlin. With 37 or so grains of 3F or Goex "Cartridge" in modern cases, it smacks with authority. None of the critters I've shot so far have gotten up and laughed.

[Seeker]

I honestly can't speak for the 357 mag. but I shot a big doe that was quartered to me left to right at about 70 yds. with my Henry BB .45 colt and a Lee 255 RF. The not a hot load of Unique entered just left of the breast bone and went clear through and exited just in front of the deer's left hind quarter. She was dead and didn't even know it.

[Good Cheer]

Not quite the whole story. There was a round that was called the 45 Colt Government. Shorter than the 45 Colt and loaded with 28 grains of BP using the same 250 grain round nose. Discontinued well before WWII, and not seen since... except:
The Long & Short of the .45 Colt. But even that does nothing to alter the fact that 45 Colt is the name of the cartridge under discussion. No "long" about it.

As for a bullet in the 45 Colt? I happen to like the ~228 grain TC I get from the RCBS 45-225-CAV. It has a nice wide meplat (wide enough), a good sized grease groove suitable for smokeless or BP, a crimp groove... and feeds like a champ thru any of the 5 - 45 Colt leverguns I have. 1 - Rossi, 2 - Ubertis, & 1 Marlin. With 37 or so grains of 3F or Goex "Cartridge" in modern cases, it smacks with authority. None of the critters I've shot so far have gotten up and laughed.

45-225-CAV works well in a Walker. Being basically a short maxi maybe it would be good in a percussion rifle.

[Jedman]

On the survey I answered the 45 Colt is better but after thinking on it maybe not better for everyone.
I have taken deer with both calibers actually more with the 357 but like the saying , put the bullet where it should go and the deer wount know.
I’m pretty sure that there are many thousands of hunters that would say that the 357 is their favorite deer caliber. To someone who has a 357 they like and have had no problems killing everything they used it for they would gain nothing switching to a 45 Colt.
By hand loading your hunting ammunition both give you many options so I am now more convinced that it’s a draw between the two in a rifle.
Jedman

[Rapier]

Properly loaded the 357 mag w a 200 gr cast is very accurate and quite effective. I have watched many folks shoot 45 and 44sn matches out to 200 and a watched the 357s with heavy bullets beat the pants off the competition. Accuracy is not one thing or is everything. The was a match director for 40+ years. My Martini will kill a deer like a lightning bolt.

[freakonaleash]

I'm sure you can kill deer with both but I wouldn't choose either. 38 55 would be my choice. The last deer I killed i used an 1860 army C&B revolver with a .44 round ball and 30gr black powder. No big deal.

[hawkeye1]

I go with the 45 Colt, my personal favorite for plinking, steel, and not too distant deer. 270 SAA with W231. Like it’s always said, if I do my part, the 45 Colt will do it’s.

[9mmskng]

I'm going with 44mag😉

[vonfilm]

I believe that the .45 Colt is a better caliber for deer hunting and I hope to take one with my Rossi R92 one day.

That being said, my only deer with a pistol caliber was with my Marlin 1894 .357 and 158 JSP-a heart lung shot at 20 yards and it didn’t run 10 feet.

[BB57]

I have:

- a 20” Rossi 92 carbine in .45 Colt;
- a 24” Armi Sport 1892 rifle in .45 Colt;
- a 20” Rossi 92 short rifle in .357 Mag; and
- a 24” Rossi 92 rifle in .357 Mag.


The .45 Colt arguably has more punch, when loaded to 30,000-32,000 psi .44 magnum levels of performance. But with those loads it also has a lot more recoil and accuracy also isn’t nearly as good as the .357 Magnum rifles.

The .357 Mag rifles will launch a 158 gr bullet at a bit over 1800 fps, and retain 640 ft pounds and 1350 fps at 150 yards. That’s a bit better than the performance of a 4” .357 Mag revolver at the muzzle.

Both my .357 Mag Rossi 92s are also 2 MOA accurate. That combination makes them a credible deer taking tool out to 150 yards.

My .45 Colt carbine, launching a 250 gr bullet at 1500 fps has about 25 yards less range in terms of point blank trajectory, and hits the 640 ft pound mark about 5 yards sooner than the .357 Mag. But it wins when it comes to momentum and bullet diameter. But it’s also down around the 4 MOA mark when it comes to accuracy, so it’s really a 100 yard cartridge.

—-

Both are comparable to a .38-55 loaded to black powder performance levels.

However, both come in a distant second and third to the 38-55, when it’s loaded to “old” smokeless powder levels with a 255 gr bullet at 1500 or so fps. With a 150 yard zero the 5” point blank range is 180 yards and it delivers 1190 fps and 800 ft pounds with both excellent momentum and sectional density.

At “modern” smokeless powder performance levels a .38-55 with a 255 gr bullet at 1725 fps and a 170 yard zero has a 5” point blank range of 200 yards where it delivers 1310 fps and 972 ft pounds.

—-

The .30-30 with a 150 gr RN fired from a .20” barrel falls below that 972 ft pound threshold at just 135 yards but holds on to the 640 ft pound threshold to 230 yards.


Consequently, owning lever actions in all of them, I rank them as follows based on power, accuracy and range from best to worst.

.38-55
.30-30
.357 Mag
.45 Colt

[mnewcomb59]

The .357 Mag rifles will launch a 158 gr bullet at a bit over 1800 fps, and retain 640 ft pounds and 1350 fps at 150 yards. That’s a bit better than the performance of a 4” .357 Mag revolver at the muzzle.

Lil' Gun shoots a 158 at 2050 fps in a 20" barrel. Try your calculator with a 158 at 2050 fps with .17 BC. Our old lot of 30-30 Core Lokt 150s go 2150 in the 20" barrel with a BC of .19.


It is so close to a 30-30 but it has a better diameter and more accuracy with a cast bullet. A 10" twist 30-30 will lose accuracy around 1800 fps with a 10 BHN bullet. AND it takes 30 grains of powder to shoot a mild load. The 357 with cast bullets is comparable to a 30-30 with jacketed bullets. Comparing cast bullet to cast bullet, the 357 has more power, TKO, FPE than the 30-30 when holding both to 10 BHN and 2 MOA accuracy standards. I will take the quieter, more effecient 357 every day with the short lever throw, short action, short overall length of rifle, lighter weight and 40% less gun powder for equal bullet weight and more velocity and softer lead.

Seriously guys, show me ANY 2050 fps 10 BHN 30-30 load that is accurate. It pretty much can't be done. Guys on here are shooting rock hard, skinny 30 cals with 28-30 grains of powder at 1800 fps and claiming it is better than a 357 rifle that has equal bullet weight, larger diameter and 200 fps more velocity; for years and years with their head in the sand and their thumb in their butt.

[r80rt]

Agreed.

[BB57]

Lil' Gun shoots a 158 at 2050 fps in a 20" barrel. Try your calculator with a 158 at 2050 fps with .17 BC. Our old lot of 30-30 Core Lokt 150s go 2150 in 20" barrel with a BC of .19.


It is so close to a 30-30 but it has a better diameter and more accuracy with a cast bullet. A 10" twist 30-30 will lose accuracy around 1800 fps with a 10 BHN bullet. AND it takes 30 grains of powder to shoot a mild load. The 357 with cast bullets is comparable to a 30-30 with jacketed bullets. Comparing cast bullet to cast bullet, the 357 has more power, TKO, FPE than the 30-30 when holding both to 10 BHN and 2 MOA accuracy standards. I will take the quieter, more effecient 357 every day with the short lever throw, short action, short overall length of rifle, lighter weight and 40% less gun powder for equal bullet weight and more velocity and softer lead.

Seriously guys, show me ANY 2050 fps 10 BHN 30-30 load that is accurate. It pretty much can't be done. Guys on here are shooting rock hard, skinny 30 cals with 28-30 grains of powder at 1800 fps and claiming it is better than a 357 rifle that has equal bullet weight, larger diameter and 200 fps more velocity; for years and years with their head in the sand and their thumb in their butt.

I based my numbers to some extent on what the average guy can obtain without going to extra ordinary casting and hand loading efforts. The 158 gr jacketed load mentioned above is a standard Federal load that can be found in both American Eagle and Champion boxes pretty much everywhere, even now.

Similarly, people can still find Buffalo Bore’s excellent 38-55 “heavy” load with some more intensive looking and there are a few different companies making cowboy loads for the .38-55.

And while the .350 Legend is taking up a lot of shelf space and production capacity that used to belong to the .30-30, .30-30 is once again back on store shelves with reasonable availability.

That said, I’m guilty of some of the same. The .38-55 tops my list as I’m a big fan of a 255 gr cast bullet with a soft 1:20 or 1:40 alloy at “old” smokeless powder velocities. IMHO it’s the sweet spot between accuracy, power, trajectory and frankly just plain fun.

I’m also partial to hunting with an old school 26” octagon barrel Model 94 rifle that weighs 8 pounds empty. My Model 92s are lighter and shorter, but I like the balance and shootability of the larger rifle.

[mnewcomb59]

I based my numbers to some extent on what the average guy can obtain without going to extra ordinary casting and hand loading efforts.

uhh ... We are on a casting and handloading site.... polling casters and handloaders... I am talking about book loads of Lil' Gun and range scrap BHN bullets- very ordinary, not extraordinary.

[Daekar]

uhh ... We are on a casting and handloading site.... polling casters and handloaders... I am talking about book loads of Lil' Gun and range scrap BHN bullets- very ordinary, not extraordinary.

I was gobsmacked when I saw the numbers that Lil'Gun put up in my Henry and Encore. Freaking magic, that stuff is. I don't load lead bullets to those velocities much anymore, but by golly it will do the job.

[Fauquier]

I prefer the 44 magnum also !

[BoBSavage]

As far as accuracy for older cartridges....

Townsand Whelen, 1920 (some shots, unknown which ones, used a scope)

CLASS A

2 INCHES AT 100 YARDS
4 INCHES AT 200 YARDS

280 Ross
30 cal Model 1906
30-40 Krag and Winchester
30 cal Model 1903
256 Mannlicher Schoenauer
25-35 WCF (in single shot)

CLASS B

2 1/2 INCHES AT 100 YARDS
6 INCHES AT 200 YARDS

7 mm Mauser
8 mm Mauser
32 Ideal
303 British
303 Savage
25-35 Rem Auto
25-35 Marlin
25-30 WCF Low pressure smokeless
25-20 Single Shot
25-21 Stevens
25-25 Stevens
28-30 Stevens
22 Long Rifle (in target rifle)

CLASS C

3 INCHES AT 100 YARDS
8 INCHES AT 200 YARDS

30-30 WCF
35 Rem Auto
35 WCF 405 WCF
45-70 Black and Smokeless
32-40 Low pressure smokeless
33 WCF
32 Winchester Self Loading
32-20
25 Rimfire
38-55 (does not specify which loads i.e. Black Powder, Low pressure smokeless, H.V. or H.P.)
22-15 Stevens

CLASS D

3 1/2 INCHES AT 100 YARDS
12 INCHES AT 200 YARDS

32 Win Special
351 Win Self Loading
351 Self Loading
32 Rem Auto
45-70 (did not specify which load)
45 90 HV
25-20 HV and Black powder
32-20 HV
38 WCF
44 WCF
401 Win Self Loading

I feel confident that both the 357 and 45 Colt will hang in there at the bottom of Class D or less? Would be interesting to see some targets.

[WILCO]

Distance dependant with 357. Run with a 170+ in the 357 and your good. As above, shot placement trumps alot. The 45 can be pushed pretty hard in an 1892 action but if ya can't hit the barn door...

I consider both brush guns and i'm only confident with the irons to about 80 yards.

Agreed!