350 Legend and Cast Boolits

[mehavey]

Using actual case capacity, and actual bullet length/weight... QL does what it does best:
get you safely into an actual data regime from which you adjust burn parameters.
(My data only. YMMV . . . so loader beware)

EXAMPLE:
350-LEGEND/Win Cases (36.7gr H2O)
LEE 358-200RF cast Lyman#2) (actual 195gr/0.854")
Norma 200 (full case/27.4gr) default QL parameters
OAL: 2.17"

Predicted 15" (rifled length):
1,918fps/39,498psi

Actual:
1,980fps/43,400psi (LABRADAR, and V-cubed ratio as wet thumb before I adjust burn rate)

Actually, I can't complain.
QL is an engineering tool

[tomme boy]

Likely the best advice I'll get all day. I think I'm going to run with it.

Here is what you want

[mehavey]

If you're going to use H110/W296, I strongly recommend staying with highest-possible load volume.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post4983964

[fastdadio]

Here is what you want

Well, that's interesting. How did you come up with that? My google-foo is weak.
I'm also having a hard time opening the old Hodgdon load data site. Seems I get redirected to a new web page that has no link.

[cwlongshot]

Ya would think huh... Try Blue Bot. (START LOW! PLEASE DO NOT USE QL DATA!!!!)

CW

[mehavey]

BLUE DOT is (one of) the powders I stay away from.
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...r#Post15138245
It does not play well in the experimental sandbox.

[cwlongshot]

BLUE DOT is (one of) the powders I stay away from.
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...r#Post15138245
It does not play well in the experimental sandbox.

. My point is QL provides data for its use....

CW

[tomme boy]

It is in horadys data someone sent me.

Have not looked in awhile but accurate or SW has data for it too. Can't remember which right now.

[44Blam]

Be very careful with W296/H110. I screwed up about 200 cases with it due to over pressure. Notice how big the primer pockets are?


I like a 180 grain boolit on top of Norma 200...

[mehavey]

Re QuickLoad and predictable results:

There are three known powders whose burn characteristics literally come unglued
from their moorings when underloaded from a case-fill/volume aspect:
- H110/W296
- Lil`Gun
- Blue Dot

This isn't anything that a ballistics program can model. (In fact I'd probably have to
run some kind of 3D code that tracked every powder particle -- and the free space
around it -- when blown into the case volume as dust after primer ignition.) Think
grain elevator explosion.

Very fast powders seem immune to that. Slow -- especially spheroidal/coating-
suppressed geometries are susceptible when allowed to burn as a collection of individual
particles in a large free-space oxidizing environment.

Like any model, however, QL is dependent on the user having some idea about the
limitations of it use. One improvement could be a red flashing clown (worthy of
Stephen King) that would flash across the screen when those powders went below
90% case fill.

Others chime in/add to the list of squirrelly results/powders as they've found
and I'll add to my own list.

[cwlongshot]

Re QuickLoad and predictable results:

There are three known powders whose burn characteristics literally come unglued
from their moorings when underloaded from a case-fill/volume aspect:
- H110/W296
- Lil`Gun
- Blue Dot

This isn't anything that a ballistics program can model. (In fact I'd probably have to
run some kind of 3D code that tracked every powder particle -- and the free space
around it -- when blown into the case volume as dust after primer ignition.) Think
grain elevator explosion.

Very fast powders seem immune to that. Slow -- especially spheroidal/coating-
suppressed geometries are susceptible when allowed to burn as a collection of individual
particles in a large free-space oxidizing environment.

Like any model, however, QL is dependent on the user having some idea about the
limitations of it use. One improvement could be a red flashing clown (worthy of
Stephen King) that would flash across the screen when those powders went below
90% case fill.

Others chime in/add to the list of squirrelly results/powders as they've found
and I'll add to my own list.

.


This is what I have pointed out my friend...

CW

[fastdadio]

When we discuss % of case capacity, is it a reference to total case filled to the neck, or the available space below a seated boolit?
I just filled a Win Legend case to the level neck with W296 and weighed the charge at 38.3 grs. I'm not going to load 90% of that.
Nope. No way Jose...

[mehavey]

Available/Free volume under the bullet is what matters.
QuickLoad calculates that based on bullet length, seating depth, and (empty) case volume:

CAUTION: The following includes load data generated by calculation in QuickLOAD software based on a particular powder lot,
the assumption the primer is as mild as possible, and assumptions about component, chamber and gun geometry that may not
correspond well to what you have. Such data should be approached by working up from published starting loads.
USE THIS DATA AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, CASTBOOLITS, nor the staff of CASTBOOLITS, nor QuickLOAD's author
nor its distributor assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information or information derived from it.

EX:

For Bullet/Powder/OAL shown....

(top left pic/lower right)
NOTE:
Maximum Case Capacity, Overflow: 36.7gr H20
Usable Case Capacity: 26.793gr H2O

Top Right pic/lower middle
NOTE: Filling L/R (LoadingRatio): 90(%) of that "Usable" Case Capacity

(FWIW: I've found straightwall cases exhibit about a 4% volume calculation factor (104% = compression start)


DO NOT USE THIS AS LOAD DATA

[tomme boy]

I get 36.4gr of water in Winchester cases trimmed to 1.7" where it is supposed to be.

[mehavey]

Then use that water volume for your specific circumstances. My own average
(half-dozen) cases was only 0.8% higher--in the noise for establishing that
"1st-shot" calibration of the effective burn rate/pressure regime.

But again, some relatively few powders don't play nice in low load-ratio sandboxes
at all. Even the manufacturers caution their use.

[revolver junkie]

alright. Ya'll drug me back into this forum. I've been lurking on this thread for awhile and I'm glad to see some life in it.
I've put together a 7.5 pistol upper. So far I've been pretty satisfied, however I'm struggling to get a sub load that functions. The only appropriate mold I have at the moment is an NOE SC360-232RF ranch dog copy. The only powder I have enough of to experiment with is lil'gun.
I have run into the issues discussed above with quickload showing velocities dramatically different than calculated.
At this point I think I need to step up to a heavier boolit. Mainly to increase chamber pressures.
Any advice or suggestions would me much appreciated

[mehavey]

Whatever you do, do not use under-loaded Lil'Gun to drive subsonic.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...8&postcount=93

You might want to consider:
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post4967562

[revolver junkie]

Unfortunately I don't have any access to norma powders. The only other option I have is a rifle powder, I have some bl(c)2. The component shortage is really causing me problems.

That's why I'm thinking a larger boolit to increase load density may be the only option I have at this point

I have eyed the accurate 270 mold. Though I thought I saw someone was having stability issues. That gives me pause id really like to find a sufficient hp mold but I cannot seem to find anything in stock

[44Blam]

Whatever you do, do not use under-loaded Lil'Gun to drive subsonic.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...8&postcount=93

You might want to consider:
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...=1#post4967562

That's what destroyed a lot of my brass - I didn't get the belt. My chamber must support more of the casing. But the bases were way out of spec and the primer pocket in a lot of them was so loose the primers would just fall out. The ones that did allow a primer to stay in wouldn't chamber in my rifle...

[cwlongshot]

Revolver junkie,

I have both the molds you speak of. Both shoot very well for me. I have seen and posted my tail wag 270's @ 1050 ish fps. In a 1:16 350 Bbl. I kick that bullet up to 1125 im
Still trans sonic here and I loose that tail wag. But even tail wag provided 1" 50 Yard accuracy as as a hunting load would probably be fine.

But before ya ask, this is in a bolt rifle. I have not attempted building a MSR sub load and this load using Herco will not cycle my MSR 350. BUT, does shoot pretty well hand cycled.

Please be careful with lilgun. It provides good service within its peramiters but its not one to mess with it has a nasty disposition at times.

Good luck

CW