Full Wadcutter loads, recommendations, please

[Bill*B]

Any load that drives a 148 grain .358" wadcutter to 700 fps or better can penetrate 15 - 16" of gel, and will take care of business. I wouldn't worry about the heavy stuff.

[Outpost75]

Any load that drives a 148 grain .358" wadcutter to 700 fps or better can penetrate 15 - 16" of gel, and will take care of business. I wouldn't worry about the heavy stuff.

Very true, but the same bullet at 1000 fps will penetrate 30"+ and penetrate clear through a big hog, horse or cow broadside if you've the need.

[Bill*B]

Yes, the load should be suited to the game. I forgot the quadrupeds.

[sniper]

Thanks all for the responses! I now have a place to safely begin experimenting. I even think, based on the good information here, that 7-800 fps will be sufficient to any reasonable need.

I have a copy of a page from an old Speer (?) manual that someone posted, and it may even have been on the Forum (no number given, but it doesn't look like it would be out of line.
It shows shows a 357 Mag. for a 148 gr. full wadcutter starting charge Of 5.5 gr. Unique. No OAL given, but the loads seem in the ballpark. That load is the same as my old 150-158 gr. SWC IPSC load, which was chronoed at 860 fps. If I drop the load .5 gr, I think I should be in safe territory, and think I could probably work it up to 5.5 gr. The full wadcutters I have do not seat noticeably deeper in a 357 case than my SWCs.

Now, the real question: If I were to buy a copy of the Speer #8 Manual, could I safely use the loads recommended for garden-variety 38 Special and 357 Magnum? I don't load to Max any more, because I enjoy shooting milder loads. What do you think?

Based on the information I have received, I won't be buying a Speer #8!

Thanx!

[Outpost75]

Speer No. 8 predates establishment of separate categories for standard and plus P .38 Special loads. The first Speer manual to do so was No. 10 which dates from 1979. As components change over the years, I REALLY recommend that you use a newer Speer manual, not older than No. 13, or the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition (2010).

[Dale53]

When the Speer #8 Manual first hit the market, I was shooting a good deal with my S&W Model 19 with a six inch barrel. It was an EXCELLENT revolver and produced some FINE targets for me.

The Speer #8 had a good bit of data on the .357 Magnum using a powder new to me: 4756. The performance seemed extraordinary to me. I loaded up a number of same lot .357 Magnum cases with a 160 gr. H&G SWC. I started out with a load of 4756 TWO grs. under max and proceeded to the range. The load shot very well, but I noticed that the rounds impacted the targets at fifty yards NOTICEABLY quicker than my standard full load. I told a couple of my shooting buddies what a great powder this seemed to be. One of them was a bright engineer by profession with much shooting and reloading experience.

He tried my suggested loads in his Smith Model 27. He had to POUND the cases out of his cylinder with a rod. We immediately ceased operations

I consulted a Commercial Reloader who was a close friend. He was also a Licensed Mechanical engineer with much experience. He was the Indiana State Pistol Champion and also runner up in Ohio. He had extensive time at Camp Perry and was quite familiar with the Advanced Marksmanship Unit of the US Army.

He had contacts in a neighboring state that had a pressure gun. After locking up a TC Contender with my loads, they ran pressure tests. My two gr. under max load tested out at 67,000 psi!

After my friends further investigation, DuPont claimed that there were two different lots of 4756 that were quite different from each other. Well, I do not know WHAT the REAL problem was, but needless to say, i immediately quit using ANY loads with 4756 powder.

Another thing, I knelt down and said a prayer of thanks for the strength of MY model 19.

Not long after, a bunch of reports began to filter in about the over pressure loads from that manual in .38 Special, too.

Amazingly, people still use and recommend those loads.

I did not have access to a chronograph in those days. It would have been interesting, I am sure (assuming whatever gun I was using stayed together).

So, moral of the story is to NEVER use any loads from the #8 Manual without backup data!

Speer learned their lesson from this, as Ed mentions, and did a lot of research in pressure testing for later manuals.

Word to the wise ...

Dale53

[dogdoc]

Speer number 8 was an exciting manual! Check out some of the bombs for 45 auto rim but do not use!

[35remington]

Yes. Stay very far away from much of the Speer #8 data, especially 38 Special. A lot of it would be +P++ if attempted. Beware.

And yes, I have one. A lot of the loads are downright shockingly heavy.

[gwpercle]

My Pet Load for the last 40 years has been :
357 magnum case , primer CCI 500 (standard) , 148 grain cast WC , sized .358 , crimp into top groove .
5.2 grains Unique .
My Ruger Blackhawk groups them very well .

I bought a new Speer manual in 1970 , first printing , to be up to date and safe....It was Speer Manual #8 !
I had no idea I was loading potential bombs , my habit of staying away from max. loads paid off...
Gary

[Char-Gar]

In the 357 Mag. case, I shoot a solid base wadcutter over 5.0/Bullseye, 7.5/AA5 (original powder) or 10/2400. These loads all feel the same upon firing, hit the same point of impact and shoot with the same level of accuracy. These loads deliver fine accuracy out as far as I can hit anything with a handgun.

[sniper]

Dale53;
When I started reloading for my model 19, I also was fascinated by the performance claims made for 4756. I used it and liked it...until I saw the cautions about it in one of my manuals. I then thought that there were other, more common powders that will do the same, without the potential drama! Perhaps it is a good thing it was discontinued. Possibly the same thing with Blue Dot, which is a good powder, but with a possible overabundance of caution, is no longer in my powder selection.

[oldsalt444]

AA load data says 3.6 gr. AA #5 gives 710 fps. All the big ammo makers load their match grade .38 wadcutter loads to 710 fps for a good reason. It's as accurate as you can get with a 148 wadcutter. AA #5 is the same burn rate as WST and Green Dot, both of which are proven performers in competition. I have used 2.7 gr. WST & 148 HBWC for years in both my S&W Model 52 and K38 revolver. I can vouch for their accuracy. Recoil is mild, and a full wadcutter hits like a freight train.

[sniper]

Based on the information I have received, I won't be buying a Speer #8!
Thanx!

[sniper]

I just received a shipment of RN-FP and SWC booits from Matt's Bullets...their standard sizing...359. I'm going to shoot some of them as received, and some I will resize to .358 to see if there is any difference. Probably not enough to get all excited about, reading some of the posts here.

[Jtarm]

In .357 Magnum brass with solid-based DEWC seated to 1.32" OAL you can load up to 5 grains of Bullseye or TiteGroup, 5.5 grs. of 231 or HP38, 6 grains of Unique or Universal, or 9 grains of Alliant #2400. These are heavy field loads which are also accurate, exceeding .38 Special +P energy.

What lube are you using?

[TNsailorman]

The problem that I saw with 4756 was the way people used it. I know a couple of fellows that tried to load the .38 Special to .357 magnum velocities with it, a recipe for disaster with any pistol powder, not just 4756. I loaded the .38 Special 125 grain hollow points to 900 fps without any trouble in my S&W Model 15-2. But the same loads in my brothers Model 19 .357 would be hard to eject. That just points up one thing I have found to be true, each revolver/pistol can be a case unto itself. My motto has always been to start with the listed start load and slowly work up. I have been loading since 1957 and I have yet to blow a primer or have a case stick in the chamber. Tomorrow may be a different story. Never, Ever, start with a maximum or near maximum listed load. I concur with the advice to use a late edition manual as long as you are using late edition powder. Manuals are fairly cheap compared to a set of eyes. my .02 anyway, james

[Good Cheer]

The old NEI gas checked .358 wadcutter was a good one if you wanted to cast soft and seat it long over 296.

[Jtarm]

Based on the information I have received, I won't be buying a Speer #8!
Thanx!

I bought one out of curiosity.

I’m guessing it kept revolver smiths busy.

[sniper]

What lube are you using?

Late reply...Lars' 45-45-10, or BLL over whatever they come with.

[siamese4570]

I carry a 900fps wadcutter load in my 4" ruger sp101 357. A couple of weeks back I had to shoot an armadillo 4 times before it finally died. I'm sure that the first shot would have eventually killed but I was looking for a quicker result. Maybe armadillos are too dumb to die.
Siamese4570